In today’s video, we sit down with Maya Shetreat. Maya Shetreat, MD is a neurologist, herbalist, urban farmer, and author of The Dirt Cure which has been translated into 10 languages. She has been featured in the New York Times, The Telegraph, NPR, Sky News, The Dr. Oz Show and more. Dr. Maya is the founder of the Terrain Institute, where she teaches earth-based programs for transformational healing, including professional training programs for psychedelic-assisted approaches. She works and studies with indigenous communities and healers from around the world, and is a lifelong student of ethnobotany, plant healing, and the sacred.
Your host, Nathan Crane, is a Certified Holistic Cancer Coach, Best-Selling Author, Inspirational Speaker, Cancer-Health Researcher and Educator, and 20X Award Winning Documentary Filmmaker with Over 15 Years in the Health Field.
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Audio Transcript
(Note that this transcription was auto-generated so there may be some erros)
00:00:37:21 – 00:00:39:13
Nathan Crane
Maya, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:40:00 – 00:00:41:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:42:00 – 00:00:46:22
Nathan Crane
So how big of a handful of mushrooms did you eat this morning before?
00:00:48:20 – 00:00:51:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
How did you guess?
00:00:53:11 – 00:00:58:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
There wasn’t any. We’re talking about the edible medicinal mushrooms here, right? So probably about.
00:00:58:11 – 00:00:59:13
Nathan Crane
Psilocybin, I think.
00:00:59:13 – 00:01:10:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
About. Oh, oh, no. I’m just like a naturally psychedelic-aware person. So my whole life is kind of a psychedelic experience. So.
00:01:10:16 – 00:01:41:07
Nathan Crane
So what? So you are an incredible person, very fascinating, incredibly intelligent, and a medical doctor who is very passionate about helping people awaken and heal, using a lot of holistic and integrative medicine and let’s say holistic medicine for sure. And psychedelics is a big part of your protocols, of your research, of your writing mean your new book even is all about psychedelics, right?
00:01:42:00 – 00:01:56:19
Nathan Crane
What got you into the work you do around psychedelics and what’s your personal experience with psychedelics? Cause I think last time we talked like you don’t even really use psychedelics for yourself, right? I mean, am I correct in that or?
00:01:57:06 – 00:02:31:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, so it’s kind of interesting. I think my story’s a little bit probably unusual of the kinds of doctors who recommend or work with psychedelics because I definitely my experience was kind of me pulled in kicking and screaming, if I could say. So I, you know, my story kind of began over a decade ago. My son was ill at the time, my youngest son, and we’d been in the mold of our home, had mold.
00:02:32:18 – 00:02:57:15
Dr. Maya Shetreat
We got it totally gutted. We moved back in. Everything had been cleaned, literally with toothbrushes, gotten rid of all of the upholstered furniture, stuffed animals, etc.. Right. I mean, it was like. And within two weeks of moving in, my son, who was seven at the time, went to take a shower in the bathroom that had been the epicenter of mold, but got it right.
00:02:57:15 – 00:03:15:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So it was perfect. Tested, etc.. And he had a seizure, the first ever seizure. And you know, I’m an adult in pediatric neurologist. He was locked in there. So it was a whole ordeal. Very terrifying. And and I and I, you know, when he finally broke.
00:03:15:12 – 00:03:17:19
Nathan Crane
Down the door, we were like, what happened? What did you do?
00:03:17:19 – 00:03:32:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
He was banging on the door. I was I couldn’t break it down because it was one of these pre-war, like, you know, built to last kind of places. But I was getting ready to actually call the police to to help me break in. And and then he kind of got up off the floor. We could see him under the door.
00:03:33:22 – 00:03:52:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So he wasn’t in the shower or anything, like he wasn’t in that kind of danger. And he kind of staggered out of the bathroom. And I just held him and one and held him. And I think there are probably people out there who can relate to this. Like I knew with my whole body and my whole mind and my whole heart that this was not a physical issue.
00:03:52:23 – 00:04:16:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I was like, he’s on all the supplements, the diet, all these protocols. I knew all that stuff. I knew how to help really desperately sick people. I’d been doing it for a long time, people from all over the world. And I was just holding him in my arms and I thought, This is not a physical problem. This is like an energetic problem or like a spiritual problem or a soul problem.
00:04:16:04 – 00:04:36:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It’s it’s something I don’t know how to treat. And it was a very humbling moment for me, honestly, because, you know, I think we go through these periods in our lives, especially when we’re younger, when, you know, we think, yeah, I was like, I can help anybody, you know? I mean, I can’t cure anybody, but I could definitely help anybody with any kind of problem.
00:04:36:20 – 00:04:48:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Like, I know things to do. And and I was sitting there and I was like, I don’t I don’t know what to do. I have to find people to help me and to teach me. And I have no idea who these people are.
00:04:49:02 – 00:04:54:00
Nathan Crane
And you had no training at that point. You had no training in like holistic or natural medicine yet? Or did you.
00:04:54:00 – 00:05:20:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Have. Oh, I did. I was doing all those things. I he was on supplements. He was on the diet. I had written The Dirt Cure like my first book. I mean, I was helping people from from all over the world with with intractable seizures, with autism, with just all kinds of sort of neurodegenerative mystery illnesses. I you know, and I and I think I did have that hubris.
00:05:20:05 – 00:05:47:10
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I did think, oh, like he’s on all the things like he’s going to be fine. And then this happened, you know, and and I think that was really an important moment of of awakening. And interestingly, I don’t even know if I should get into this, but not long before that, I had this dream that I died. And I sometimes have had dreams that people die before they die.
00:05:48:15 – 00:06:12:07
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Not I don’t know, they’re sick. Nothing, nothing. I have a dream. It’s a very particular quality of dream. And I. I wake up and I’m like, Oh my God. And then it has happened. Actually happened before my father died. It happened before my brother in law at the time got diagnosed and he died two years later. He had had cancer, but we didn’t know, right?
00:06:12:07 – 00:06:50:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So I’d had these experiences and then I had a dream like that about myself, maybe like a month before that. And I was so freaked out, obviously, because I lost my father when I was young. I didn’t want to leave my children, you know, without a parent, etc. And and I got this. I talked to this amazing medicine man, Dr. Lewis Mal Madrona, who is both an MD and indigenous medicine man, and he he said, Maya, he said the spirit guys are laughing right now.
00:06:50:20 – 00:07:23:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
He said, They’re laughing and they’re laughing. He said, This is not a physical death you dreamt about. It’s a spiritual death. And you have a lot more to do in this lifetime. Before you go anywhere. And I was like, who so relieved, not thinking like, what might this spiritual death look like? And then within a month later, there’s my son in my arms, you know, and I’m thinking to myself, Wow, Like, I didn’t know.
00:07:23:13 – 00:07:58:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Of course I didn’t put it together at all, But I’m like, now I have to go on this journey and through various means, you know, I ended up on a trip to Ecuador, basically with a fourth generation shaman who is also a Ph.D. in ethno botany. And we went to the Amazonian rainforest, and I was going because I wanted to learn about healing plants and spiritual healing and kind of this whole mystical way of engaging with with illness, this whole different paradigm.
00:07:59:13 – 00:08:34:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Little did I know because they didn’t tell us. Actually, we can talk about the ethics of that, that there was a plan to just sprinkle in some experiences with Master plants, which are these are what many Indigenous people call teacher plants or what we think of as psychedelics. These plants that are very potent neuro active plants now, master plants, by the way, include psychedelics, but much more than that, like coffee is a master plant.
00:08:34:06 – 00:08:50:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Cacao is a master plant, right? So it’s not like they’re all psychedelic. But in this case, we did engage with some of those medicines and I was shocked and absolutely upset, in fact, that that happened because it was completely unexpected.
00:08:50:24 – 00:08:58:06
Nathan Crane
They spiked your drink or your food or ayahuasca or something. You’re just, Oh, I know.
00:08:58:06 – 00:09:23:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But they didn’t like really warn us, you know, And I think some of the people must have realized. But I was you know, I was naive and I did not. And so that was like a very you know, I felt like I was called onto this trip in this very clear way. And after the trip, I was like, oh, like I was being called, I think, by the plants.
00:09:23:13 – 00:09:27:06
Nathan Crane
By the way. Anyway, tuning in don’t ever do that to anybody else.
00:09:27:15 – 00:09:27:23
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yes.
00:09:28:16 – 00:09:48:12
Nathan Crane
It’s like one of the worst things you could ever do to somebody unexpectedly going into a psychedelic trip. Like, I don’t I don’t know. I just couldn’t. Yeah. Talking about the ethics of that, I mean, you could really cause some major psychological damage to someone. I think going into a psychedelic trip and having no idea what’s going on.
00:09:48:12 – 00:10:02:02
Nathan Crane
Right. Or what’s happening to you or what is going on, like in I think you’d have some major problems. You could also have probably an amazing experience depending on who you’re with and what happens and all that. But I think you could also, you know, have a really bad trip too.
00:10:02:15 – 00:10:38:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, in the research for my book, one of the things that I discovered was that when LSD, not a master plant, right, it’s chemical. But when LSD was first available in the fifties in the U.S., who was driving all of the research that was being done in academic settings, but the military and the government. Yeah. One of the things that they were doing in like the CIA, for example, was spiking people’s like agents.
00:10:38:18 – 00:10:39:14
Nathan Crane
And then interrogating.
00:10:39:15 – 00:11:19:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Spiking each other’s, you know, food with LSD and seeing what would happen. And the military also started experimenting as well with LSD as a as a weapon, a weapon, you know, to disable their enemies. So so it’s interesting what you’re bringing up, because I really dive into that topic of like, how do we and how do we know how to engage properly, respectfully, appropriately with these really powerful medicines.
00:11:19:03 – 00:11:53:10
Nathan Crane
But we know it’s really well documented. And, you know, they had a global set and the CIA had to go before Congress and all this, the program called MKULTRA Right, which was from the 1950s and 1970s, where the CIA was developing and using illegally, by the way. That’s right. Drugs to control the mind and interrogate people. So they were, you know, trying to basically use LSD and other drugs, create drugs to control people’s minds and to interrogate them and to, you know, and it was it was a very illegal thing that was happening.
00:11:54:07 – 00:11:58:23
Nathan Crane
And it’s a very I mean, almost a form of torture, if you will. You know.
00:11:58:23 – 00:12:01:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
That’s a form of torture. What? Oh, yeah.
00:12:01:20 – 00:12:27:03
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, absolutely a form of torture, I should say. I mean, very torturous. I mean, these people were in agony, in pain and despair and 100% torture is crazy. So you can I mean, they can be used for. Right, torture. They can be used for spiritual awakening and healing, which is quite interesting. You can have both extremes with something like a psychedelic experience.
00:12:28:20 – 00:12:56:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, in fact, and this is something I talk about also quite a bit in the book is about, you know, Indigenous people are very clear that, let’s say, for example, ayahuasca or any of these master plants, they’re not just unequivocally good, they it’s very clear and they make very clear that all of them have the capacity for kind of medicine or malice.
00:12:57:06 – 00:13:24:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So there is this idea of, you know, and this is one of the things that I really delve into and I’ve I’ve talked about in my book The Dirt Cure, and a lot since then is that we’re all in relationship and there’s no nothing is static, nothing is fixed. We can’t say this is all good or this is all bad, but in fact, it’s about the relationship between, you know, in this case the person and the plant.
00:13:24:20 – 00:13:51:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So it’s absolutely true that who we are, what we bring, how we come, how even the medicine itself is harvested, prepared the ceremony around that, whatever it may be, you know, and we can talk about what ceremony really is. But it is that is what defines the medicine and whether you will get the best of that plant or whether you will get the worst.
00:13:51:18 – 00:14:29:07
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And in the case of the indigenous communities I’ve spoken with, it’s really about sorcery, right? I mean, that is a paradigm in the indigenous world and I think we probably like it’s like we want to whitewash that discussion in Western society because or northern, let’s say society because it’s it seems very primitive or it seems very superstitious. But, you know, their idea is you can use these things for good and for evil and I think it’s important that we think about those things and with a very open mind and so that we don’t do more damage.
00:14:29:07 – 00:14:33:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Right. That we want it. We want to get well and not create worse outcomes.
00:14:33:23 – 00:15:11:04
Nathan Crane
Yeah. I mean, talking about, you know, medicinal uses and getting well, I remember when they were doing when I was living in San Diego, they were doing studies with the soldiers, I believe in the Navy with PTSD, and they were doing studies with psilocybin on depression and anxiety and PTSD. So what they were finding was incredibly powerful and sustained positive benefits in results dealing with depression, anxiety and PTSD in soldiers compared to compared to drugs compared to antidepressants.
00:15:11:20 – 00:15:42:21
Nathan Crane
And what’s fascinating about that is how, you know, these, as you call them, master plans are here on the earth already, which is which is something we could talk about. I believe they were like designed for a purpose and how when used appropriately, they can be a profoundly healing mental, emotional, spiritual and even physical healing. You know, you can’t even call it a medicine.
00:15:42:21 – 00:16:04:13
Nathan Crane
I yeah, you could call it medicine, a profoundly healing medicine and almost almost transformational in a way that is like ten times more effective than therapy. For example, at least in my own case, you know, mushrooms saved my life and we can talk about that later, but I don’t use them now. But I needed them at one point in my life.
00:16:05:01 – 00:16:21:10
Nathan Crane
And they really say they really saved my life. But going back to to your story a little bit, I want to know more about this experience in Ecuador where you’re you were spiked with you’re surprised with some psychedelic experience. What happened? Like what was that like? What did you do?
00:16:22:02 – 00:16:46:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Oh, my gosh. The stories I could tell, really. But no, no one spiked anything. It wasn’t like that. And that’s not how things are done there. You know, It was more just, Oh, by the way, you know, here you can have this and, you know, we’re going to we’re going to stamp all ayahuasca. We’re going to write the way actually, And this is another interesting way.
00:16:46:20 – 00:16:49:15
Nathan Crane
And it wasn’t it wasn’t spiked unknowingly.
00:16:49:15 – 00:17:08:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It just Oh, no, no, no, no, no. But I didn’t know going to the experience or at like the start of that day, for instance, that that was going to happen. It was very kind of like we didn’t we didn’t know I wasn’t I at least was was not clear that those things were happening ever.
00:17:08:09 – 00:17:14:10
Nathan Crane
And everybody else probably knew ahead of time, like, all right, let’s do this. And you’re like, What the hell is going?
00:17:14:10 – 00:17:47:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Pretty much possible. Possible. You. But but no, I mean, it was done with like, you know, some of the indigenous healers of that particular place because we traveled to different places in the country. And and they did do, you know, some very fascinating healing ceremonies where, you know, sometimes involved having to take your clothes off if they, you know, they would hit you with plants sometimes with like stinging nettles, you’d end up with welts all over.
00:17:47:12 – 00:18:07:10
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It was it was a very it was very profound and sometimes almost like absurd. It felt like, you know, and for me, it was a very initiate to me process. Like I think of these initiating processes as being very important medicine in and of themselves. And, you know, for me, like training to become a doctor is a very initiator.
00:18:07:10 – 00:18:23:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
A process is like an initiation where you’re in a lot of pain, right? You can’t go to the bathroom when you want to. You can eat when you want to. You can’t sleep when you want to. You don’t have control over your time. Could be your birthday, could be your anniversary. You could have someone sick in your family.
00:18:23:06 – 00:19:05:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You have to show up, you have to perform. You have to be in this kind of you know, you could almost say like the church of you know, of, well, I’d like to say healing, but the hospital doesn’t usually feel that way. But, you know, of medicine, let’s say. And so that is a kind of initiation. And this, too, was a different kind of initiation where I was being initiated into really like a whole different way of thinking about the body that I was already attuned to having been part of the holistic community and being, you know, an integrative adult and pediatric neurologist for years already.
00:19:05:16 – 00:19:38:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But this was different because, you know, they were very clear, like physical illness is totally downstream. That’s not great. Like if you’re experiencing physical symptoms in that world, in that paradigm, you’ve already been sick for a very, very, very long time. Spiritually. You’re not in right relationship, you’re not in the right way of being with yourself, with those around you, with the land you stand on, with your ancestors and the invisible.
00:19:38:11 – 00:19:57:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You are out of good relationship, and that’s spiritually making you sick. And then that’s when mental and physical illness starts to present itself. So it was a completely different kind of, you know, medical school experience, let’s just say.
00:19:58:02 – 00:20:25:19
Nathan Crane
Yeah, And that’s such a powerful concept to grasp once you do like. So it’s, it’s the same concept that I learned from doing many ceremonies with Native Americans, Lakota Sioux, a number of different Native American tribes over the years, same concept as well as what I learned in studying ancient Eastern Chinese medicine through the tradition of qigong, right?
00:20:25:24 – 00:21:00:01
Nathan Crane
And qigong and ancient Eastern medicine has the exact same language, basically the exact same philosophy or understanding, if you will, about if you are having physical ailments. It is always related to an underlying disconnection from your highest self, from your energy. Like in qigong, it’s your energy is blocked. Why is it blocked? Because of stress, because of fear, because of anxiety, because of what you’re eating, the way you’re living.
00:21:00:06 – 00:21:22:19
Nathan Crane
You’re as you said, you’re out of right relations. It’s a very, you know, Native American terms relation right. Relations with source, with spirit, with God, with the Earth, as you said, with your ancestors. And when you become into it, when you come into right relations or good relations, meaning what I take from that is is respect and appreciation and connection.
00:21:23:01 – 00:21:43:18
Nathan Crane
And those things lead to good decisions for our health, right? And you don’t eat as poorly. You don’t live as poorly. You you tend to take care of yourself better because if you love God, you love the earth, you love the plants, you love people, you also love yourself. You kind of you really have to love yourself to love everything else.
00:21:44:01 – 00:22:06:06
Nathan Crane
You know, that’s that’s a really important concept. And in loving yourself, you realize often smoking cigarets and drinking this alcohol and sitting on the couch 12 hours a day and not exercising. I take care of myself. I’m destroying myself. That’s not self love. You know, we can kind of put on this facade and act like we love ourselves by, you know, going out and loving everybody else and forgetting about ourselves.
00:22:06:06 – 00:22:16:15
Nathan Crane
But at the end of the day, if we don’t really learn to love and respect and appreciate ourselves, we really can’t show that anybody else at a deep and true level. I mean, that’s what I believe.
00:22:17:07 – 00:23:06:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, I mean, I think it’s even, you know, like there is this really important component of that, which is, well, first of all, kindness to our self is also rest. It’s also engaging in creative things, right? Like bringing in course we want to eat well and exercise and all of these kinds of disciplines doings. But we also, you know, those are in a certain way us dictating things to our bodies and, and being in this place of, you know, in a sense like achieving right there is this way in which, you know, and I’m not knocking that obviously I very much promote and support all of those things.
00:23:06:19 – 00:23:47:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And there’s also a way in which and we can talk about right hemisphere in left hemisphere and how, you know, each of the sides of the brain are like a brain in and of themselves, kind of of the the masculine and the feminine, not gender, not in a gendered way, but in a archetypal way that we need to also nurture that right hemisphere, which is all about kind of big picture creativity, daydream, rest, like kind of the connecting the dots and, and, and not being in the non-linear.
00:23:48:06 – 00:24:09:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So something that we’ve really pushed in our society and you know this is a very nerdy topic and I do go into it more in my book is really about we become very left hemisphere focused, which is very regimented and very linear and very like these are the things you have to do this and this and this and this.
00:24:09:15 – 00:24:40:09
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And, and I think that we need balance. And I do think this is part of being in right. Relationship with ourselves is where, you know, how do we create spaciousness for ourselves and how do we step outside of time and space, ordinary time and space, you know, which can be through creative things like painting, drawing, dancing, you know, meditating, but also being in nature, right?
00:24:40:09 – 00:25:26:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
All of those kinds of things. And, and ceremony, right? Doing rituals, being in ceremony where we’re where we’re we’re not in that kind of left brain way, but more in this right brain sort of paradigm. But I do think that’s also part of our relationship. And then really to your point of how important it is to take care of ourselves to be in right relationship, we right, we know now we have this bio field which is comprised in part of this measurable electromagnetic fields that we emit from our heart, but really from every cell in our bodies, our brains and our all of our organs, all emitting this measurable electromagnetic field that influences and combines
00:25:27:02 – 00:25:54:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
with the electromagnetic fields and bio fields of those around us. So we, in the way that we operate, the way we comport ourselves, we actually change the way other people feel simply by us feeling a sense of gratitude and appreciation and reverence we create. Right? We’re co-creating our reality simply by just how we feel and our own way of being.
00:25:55:08 – 00:26:23:07
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And that’s like, I think, amazing because we I think in general in our society, think, well, that person wronged me or I had trauma back then or whatever. And again, not knocking any of those things. We want people to operate well. We do have experiences that we wish we hadn’t had, etc. but we do also have sovereignty, have agency about how we care for ourselves, how we love ourselves.
00:26:23:07 – 00:26:51:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And and we can come with our very like, delicious way of being in gratitude and appreciation. In coherence, actually, it’s called in the technical term. And we create a new reality in a new kind of relationship with everyone around us. And I, I teach this in my programs and actually, I mean, people have gone to like literally gone to court where they were going to they were in the wrong they were going to end up in trouble.
00:26:51:12 – 00:27:10:09
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Maybe. And they go in in that place of gratitude, appreciation, coherence, walk into court, and they say, you know what, we’re going to dismiss this. You know, just do better next time. Right? Like you can really see outcomes from operating in that way.
00:27:11:06 – 00:27:34:15
Nathan Crane
Absolutely. I mean, I could I could probably account dozens and dozens of times in my own life, and I’m sure you could to where when you shift your mentality and your mindset and your energy and your thinking and your intention from, you know, this terrible thing that’s happening to me to. All right, this is happening, what can I do about it?
00:27:34:21 – 00:27:54:05
Nathan Crane
How can I approach this in a loving way or in a productive way? How can I, you know, do the best that I can with what I have and start visioning a better outcome, literally visioning like, okay, well, what’s the best result possible? Okay, it could be this, well, this or better, let’s have this or better, What do I need to do?
00:27:54:05 – 00:28:17:01
Nathan Crane
And we start getting literally yes. Yesterday I had like three major things happen at the same time, like, you know, notification three major things like major tech problems with one of my companies that were just like dumping tons and tons of money into and tech problems and trying to get this thing solved and built and really increase our reach and impact and help a lot more people.
00:28:17:13 – 00:28:42:02
Nathan Crane
But there’s like things that I thought were solved that weren’t solved, and it was like, okay, it was a huge shock and surprise in the moment like this was supposed to be solved like months ago and is still not solved is a huge problem, you know, And I had no idea. At the same time, you know, the another thing with the retreat actually that that that we have coming up and finding out some details about some things there and was like, oh my gosh.
00:28:42:02 – 00:29:06:18
Nathan Crane
Okay another big problem here we have to solve. And then there’s another thing. It was like three big things back to back. And it just it took my energy from like the normal 95% and 99% of time where my energy is very positive in a very positive outlook, very high energy, very ready to to do whatever I need to do in the day, to do the work that I do, to show up in a good way with my family and myself.
00:29:06:24 – 00:29:31:12
Nathan Crane
And like my energy was just like dropped down to like, almost like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Like, what am I going to do? You know? It was like it was a feeling of despair. And immediately it was because of my practice and my training and my, like, having years of, you know, facing life’s challenges and knowing what to do.
00:29:31:18 – 00:29:48:03
Nathan Crane
It’s like, okay, what do I do? I need to get my mindset right. I need to get my energy going. I need to look at a positive outcome. I need to start thinking of good solutions. I need to start taking action that’s going from the it’s like the coherence between the left brain and right brain. Okay, the question, what can I do?
00:29:48:03 – 00:30:03:09
Nathan Crane
What create if thing do I need to do what you know, what calls can I make it start using the visioning and then the action the left brain, the logical the. All right. I actually need to do something with this, right? It’s like I need to put this into action and then boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Things started solving like really quickly.
00:30:03:09 – 00:30:28:20
Nathan Crane
They’re not perfectly solved overnight, but I felt better and my energy was better. I’m a better father to my kids are better husband to my wife, a better leader in my community, and, you know, start seeing some results pretty quickly. So, you know, what you’re saying is so powerful and so true. It’s profound words of wisdom that when we like we are, we can be and we actually are the creators of of our life and our reality.
00:30:28:20 – 00:30:55:18
Nathan Crane
And in many cases, I would say even our destiny in the sense that not necessarily everything that happens to us is in our control. It’s certainly not. But how we respond to those things and take action and solve them and find a better path forward is certainly in our control. And that’s that’s really, really empowering. Hey, I just want to take a quick second and thank you for listening to this episode.
00:30:55:18 – 00:31:22:05
Nathan Crane
I hope you’re enjoying it so far as a special thank you for tuning in this episode. I want to give you my number one Amazon bestselling book, Absolutely Free. You can go download it right now at Becoming cancer free dotcom. If you want to learn evidence based strategies for helping your body become a cancer fighting machine for not only cancer reversal but cancer prevention, go grab a copy of the book again.
00:31:22:05 – 00:31:29:05
Nathan Crane
I’m just giving to you for free. You can go download it at becoming cancer free dot com. All right, let’s get back to the show.
00:31:29:19 – 00:31:57:02
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I really love the examples you gave. How? Because we do. I mean, I’ve experienced that same thing of feeling derailed. You know, like I’m also a very optimistic person generally and you know, kind of have all these big visions and ideas and then, you know, of course, when you want to when you have a big vision or a big idea, you know, you’re going to probably fall on your butt a good number of times in that process.
00:31:57:02 – 00:32:29:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Right. Because it’s the nature birthing things into the world that maybe no one knows about or, you know, something new, etc.. And it’s really possible to get derailed by that. And I you know, when you brought up despair, you know, that is one of the for me in this past year, even I noticed that I have a choice about falling into that feeling of despair when, you know, you’re like, oh, like this isn’t working.
00:32:29:01 – 00:32:47:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
How am I going to do this? I’m going to be right. And you and you feel like you’re in a lose lose, right? And it’s like, Oh my God, everything is terrible. And and you can I mean, it can be things that happen to you, but it can also be, you know, what’s happening in the world, right? We can be derailed by any number of things and fall into despair.
00:32:47:12 – 00:33:15:17
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And and it’s really a and maybe we could even argue that media and social media, which we know a little bit about algorithms and things like that, want us to be activated, to be angry, to be in despair. And that’s part of the way headlines are crafted, the way algorithms are crafted is in fact, right to make us feel like more agitated because that makes us kind of more addicted to media.
00:33:15:21 – 00:33:47:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Just as an example. So so there is this potential all the time to fall into that hole, let’s say. And I learned really in this past year, I mean, not that I haven’t noticed it in the past, not that I don’t have practices around it, but I noticed not like that’s a choice and I have to very consciously make a choice not to be in despair even when I feel tempted.
00:33:47:08 – 00:34:17:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It is definitely not in my best interest or in my benefit at all to do that. It doesn’t help anybody around me to do that. And you know more than that, even. It’s, you know, it’s really it’s kind of disabling. So what I’ve started to do instead when I feel tempted is to say, I say like, wow, fascinating.
00:34:18:00 – 00:34:55:02
Dr. Maya Shetreat
This thing that’s happening right now, how interesting this is. And just like, take that moment and, you know, just kind of live in the question, right? Rather than like going into my automatic programing like, oh, I can’t believe this is happening and like, oh, I’m never going to be you know, instead of doing that, like, oh, wow, really interesting, really curious, like, and just let myself be in the audience of the situation rather than in my role, you know, my, my role as the character in it.
00:34:55:11 – 00:35:21:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Just like taking that moment is sometimes enough to see a little bit of like an eagle eye view or a big picture or or even engage with a question you might not otherwise have even to ask. So I really value that you brought up the topic of despair because it’s like that’s like a pitfall that those are pitfalls all over the place.
00:35:21:21 – 00:35:40:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And and we really can, you know, we really can avoid them, bypass those particular hits, you know, those roadblocks when we are conscious and attentive in our daily life.
00:35:41:03 – 00:35:59:01
Nathan Crane
Yeah, that’s so powerful. And I love your process to kind of your practice of like, okay, let me just take a second. Very interesting, very curious. This thing is happening to me right now, okay? And I sit back and be with it for a little bit before, you know, you might ask some questions about it or take some action around it.
00:35:59:08 – 00:36:18:09
Nathan Crane
I think that’s an empowering place to to take action from, you know, And I find for me, it’s like if I get if I get my body moving, so like I go to the gym or I get some cardiovascular lift, some weights or something, I’ll be significantly more empowered as well. Right? You get the dopamine flow in it, maybe even get a little bit of adrenaline going.
00:36:18:09 – 00:36:41:08
Nathan Crane
As you do a high intensity workout, you come out of that and you’re like, you can get out of that funk really quickly with with your physical being and then use that energy to help the mental side go. All right, now what do we need to do to solve this and go into what I like to call a solution oriented mindset, meaning, look, there’s solutions to every problem on the planet, 100%.
00:36:41:08 – 00:37:07:21
Nathan Crane
There is a solution. Let me find it. How do I find it? What’s the solution like? That’s my that’s the mindset that I’ve trained myself in for the past almost 17 years. And it wasn’t easy to get to the point where I can turn it on instantly all the time. It took a lot of practice. It took a lot of these challenges every day, you know, in many ways of like, Oh my God, I’m stuck in that drudgery and in that despair.
00:37:07:21 – 00:37:25:00
Nathan Crane
And then it’s like, okay, I got it. I got to get to a solution mindset. And I’m back in the despair and back. And it was like, the more you practice, the easier it gets. And then you see the results of it. You know that it that it actually works. So, yeah, I’m I’m glad you shared your process.
00:37:25:00 – 00:37:58:01
Nathan Crane
Let me ask you a question. Were you always generally have you always, generally been more optimistic in your life? I know you said just in the last year alone you’ve made some big kind of leaps and bounds on choice around despair and things like that. But even before that, even going back to maybe your childhood, younger time in your life, were there times in your life where you were just like a very negative person, an opt in becoming more optimism?
00:37:58:01 – 00:38:07:14
Nathan Crane
What became more optimistic was was a a big shift for you and a big practice, or have you generally been more optimistic about life all of your life?
00:38:08:02 – 00:38:17:23
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah, well, you know me, Nathan, pretty well, so I feel like you probably know the answer to that question, but but I mean, I’m, I mean.
00:38:17:23 – 00:38:22:16
Nathan Crane
I have assumptions, but I don’t really actually know. So I’m really curious, actually.
00:38:23:08 – 00:38:54:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, you know, so I’m an answer for you two ways. I mean, the first thing is I mean, I think yes, I generally a big a big ideas person and always kind of visioning into the next thing. So, you know, like it’s interesting. I mean, I think I am optimistic. I think I’ve always been optimistic and realistic. I think I’m like an optimistic realist is how I would kind of think of like I’m I’m pretty discerning.
00:38:55:07 – 00:39:32:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I’m not I’m not interested in some big Lala idea that it doesn’t have like a very practical grounding to it. I see through well, if I could say that pretty well, I think it’s one of my superpowers. So I’m not just like sort of blindly optimistic. I think I’m optimistic, but I’m also looking at the practicalities at the same time, and I’ll answer you from the standpoint also of so, you know, I’m also I do ancient astrology that’s sort of become a a passion of mine.
00:39:32:03 – 00:39:57:10
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And, you know, people think astrology is something like what you read in a magazine, you know, that little horoscope or whatever. But it’s actually an incredibly technical science. And actually in ancient times, in Hellenistic times, for example, if you were a doctor, for instance, or an advisor to the government and you didn’t know astrology, you were considered to be like ignorant, like no one would, you were.
00:39:57:10 – 00:39:59:13
Nathan Crane
A quack back then if you didn’t know astrology.
00:39:59:23 – 00:40:25:17
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, right. And, and so I ended up having a very like seminal opening experience at a very difficult time in my life, actually, in the last decade was a very challenging time in my life. And I ended up connected to through very serendipitous means, one of the most famous astrologers in the world, one of the most academic fame, astrologers, speaks many, many languages, has written many scholarly books.
00:40:26:06 – 00:40:53:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I had no idea, of course, that he was this famous person, and he helped me by looking at my chart and I was like, Oh my gosh, like, how did he know these things? And I was like, I want to learn about this. And I discovered how technical astrology really is. And from certainly ancient times they’re very technical ways of knowing, both predicting and understanding contextually a lot of things.
00:40:53:13 – 00:41:16:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So what I would say to you about when you ask me if I’m optimistic is Jupiter is right on my middle heaven, which is the very top of the chart, sort of how will you be in the world? Jupiter is like a kind of joke is like Santa Claus. Jupiter is like vision, ideas, optimism, abundance. Right, Right on my middle have.
00:41:16:13 – 00:41:49:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so I think like I have had that quality since the moment I came out on the one hand. But I also am a Scorpio Sun. And so I have a very like deep dive nature, very technical. You can’t, you know, and I’ve been in the depths I have like I don’t I would never pretend that I haven’t been in times of despair that I haven’t gone through very hard times in my life where I felt confused or lost or all of that, you know, So I’m in it with everybody.
00:41:49:13 – 00:42:13:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I don’t think I’m like up here and everybody else is down here and that it’s my job. You know, I just feel like whatever I know, like I want to offer that guidance, let’s say, so that people can find their way, right? Because we’re all we all go through these periods in our lives and sometimes for some people could be most of their lives feeling like we’re walking in the dark.
00:42:13:20 – 00:42:53:10
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so wherever I can be, you know, kind of a beacon holder, that’s what I want to be for people. And I think that is like an optimistic role, you know, and I teach people to do that also. I guide people to become their own beacon holders and beacon holders for other people, because I think we all have that capacity, and especially from our difficult experience is we learn so much, we we get so much medicine of our own original medicine, our own medicine that we’re here to offer in the world, whatever that might look like through those times we go through the dark.
00:42:53:10 – 00:43:20:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So I don’t think you know, I do think that being able to find our optimism and find that sort of beacon holding role for ourselves is what is joyful, what makes life feel like it has meaning and purpose and connection and like we’re in flow. And that to me is like, what? What I’m here to do is to feel alive, right?
00:43:20:12 – 00:43:22:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And to and to live into that.
00:43:23:00 – 00:43:48:20
Nathan Crane
Yeah, it’s beautiful. I just literally I’m reminded of just this morning talking about, like, how do we find that optimism when things are challenging and what can we do about it? And this morning I woke up as you know, you you do Olympic weightlifting, right? I do Olympic weightlifting. I do primarily CrossFit, but I do a lot of Olympic weightlifting as part of it.
00:43:48:20 – 00:44:08:07
Nathan Crane
And and I love it like it’s a huge part of my life training as an athlete. I didn’t even find training as an athlete to be a huge part of my life until I was 30, except when I was a kid. You know, growing up to early teenager, I was always an athlete. And then there’s a whole big period of time where I didn’t wasn’t an athlete.
00:44:08:07 – 00:44:25:24
Nathan Crane
And then 30 found CrossFit and just like fell in love. And it’s a huge part of has developed me over the past few years in so many good ways. And I look forward to it every day. And so when I wake up like this morning and it’s like my shoulder, I can barely move it. There’s like stabbing pain.
00:44:25:24 – 00:44:49:15
Nathan Crane
My knees got stabbing pain. I don’t even know what the heck happened. I just wake up. It’s like I can barely walk and barely move my arm. I feel terrible. But, you know, in the mornings I forward to to training, to working out, to getting going. And so it’s like, you know, talk about like, man, I just want to lay down and not do anything, but what do I do?
00:44:49:20 – 00:45:06:00
Nathan Crane
I just go into the gym and start doing what I know how to do. I start mobilizing and rolling out and stretching and doing some physical therapy movements and start getting some blood flowing. And then as I’m doing it, I’m getting a little more positive mindset. It’s like, I didn’t wake up with this optimizes, like, Oh yeah, look at all this pain.
00:45:06:00 – 00:45:34:23
Nathan Crane
Great, let’s go to the gym and we’re going to feel great. It was like just like pulling myself to the gym to get there was was tough enough, but I knew that if I just start it moving, I could I could, you know, pull myself a little bit out of that funk. And as I did then, what what I often do and I think this could be a powerful tool for anybody who wants to try it or use it or maybe many people have experienced this is then I get out of my own ego.
00:45:34:23 – 00:45:52:14
Nathan Crane
I get out of my own self, and I go, How can I use this to help others? Right? And so as I’m starting to feel better, as I move and I’m getting blood flow in, like the pain’s less and less and less and I’m like, Actually, all right, I’m actually moving. I can do some stuff. Then I go, okay, what do I do when I’m experiencing this?
00:45:52:14 – 00:46:14:15
Nathan Crane
Because so many people are not exercising, are not taking care of their physical health, are not going to the gym, are not doing physical things because of chronic pain, because of so much pain, they go, Well, I’ve got the pain, so I can’t exercise, I can’t walk, I can’t jog, I can’t do this or that. And then it gets worse and worse and worse and worse and their health deteriorates year after year.
00:46:14:15 – 00:46:43:02
Nathan Crane
Right? And so it’s like, how can I use this experience to help others? So I create a short video and talk about it and walk through exactly what I do and how it works and how actually part of the progression of your chronic pain as you age is generally because you are not exercising, you are not using the full range of those joints, you are not working on gaining more flexibility and mobility and strength in your tendons and ligaments and bones and tissues and and joints.
00:46:43:02 – 00:47:07:04
Nathan Crane
And so it’s like this is the process. And then as I finish, you know, time went by like this and I’m like, Oh, man, I feel great. I still got the pain, but the endorphins have kicked in. So the pain’s like 50 or 60% less. I feel like I was productive because I did something for my health in the morning and I made a little video that could help some other people.
00:47:07:05 – 00:47:25:09
Nathan Crane
Right? They’re going through the same thing. So it’s like getting out of my own, my own ego around it, my own self suffering and thinking about how can I help and serve others. And then it’s like, okay, now that just became a fulfilling, meaningful experience.
00:47:26:04 – 00:47:52:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah, well, you know, I relate to a lot of the things you said, you know, one of which is I really didn’t find my inner athlete, let’s say, until I was in my early forties and that was when I started doing Olympic weightlifting and running, which I hated running when I was like in high school, let’s say, like I never ran like I would I would do yoga.
00:47:52:03 – 00:48:15:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I liked yoga, but I wouldn’t have called myself an athlete. And then I started lifting weights right before actually my 42nd birthday. And it was so transformative because I discovered that I was really strong and these aspects of myself that I thought, Oh, like, you know, women shouldn’t do that or like and I did get some comments like, Oh, you’re going to be like big, you’re going to be right.
00:48:15:22 – 00:48:35:15
Dr. Maya Shetreat
All the things that people say to women, I was like, like, wow. Like I was able to very quickly deadlift, you know, almost £200. And, you know, because they said, oh, it’s going to be a while before we can even use the barbell. And then like within like, I don’t know, maybe the next session they were like, Wow, like you’re really strong.
00:48:35:15 – 00:48:56:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And I like discovered this whole real kind of passion that I that I didn’t know I had. And it wasn’t a CrossFit gym, although I didn’t do CrossFit, I just did the lifting because it’s a place which I really credit. CrossFit with. This is creating a container for women to feel comfortable lifting weights.
00:48:57:20 – 00:49:36:01
Nathan Crane
It’s really just it’s really cool What’s happened. Actually on that topic of like seeing before I was into CrossFit and I would see a woman with big muscles and I was kind of like I was honestly very judgmental, like, Oh, that’s not, that’s not hot, that’s not sexy, That’s not she looks like a man, you know? And then because of CrossFit and because of experience with it and because of seeing these women in person who are like, I’m talking about like elite level CrossFit athlete, women who are unable even be strong, very toned, very, you know, I mean, six pack abs, you know, solid muscles.
00:49:36:08 – 00:50:07:01
Nathan Crane
Like, I am so impressed by actually to be totally transparent. Like to me, they are beautiful, they are sexy, they are hot. They’re like, I’m like, it’s incredible how my own mindset shifted from judgment to just adoration over time of experiencing it and going, They’re not man muscles. They they work out and their muscles do that. Okay, So that’s exactly the potential that women have, just like men have now.
00:50:07:01 – 00:50:33:14
Nathan Crane
Obviously, women and men are not the same in a number of ways. But when it comes to the body potential of physicality and strength and muscle definition and things like that, it’s incredibly beautiful. As you said, like is a huge thanks to CrossFit for helping you know, bring this paradigm into the future of really appreciating strong women as as beautiful.
00:50:33:24 – 00:51:06:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah, I think you know and what you’re really describing and this sort of is relevant to the topic of, well, psychedelics, but really like this way of interrupting these programing that we have, right, We have all been conditioned to think that we should be a certain way, which could be, you know, if you’re a woman, are really like thin with little thin arms and, you know, fragile and delicate, or if you’re a man could be, you know, being super built or, you know, never crying or.
00:51:06:12 – 00:51:30:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Right, like not showing your feelings or whatever they are. Okay. And I think what I’m really interested in as a neurologist, as a spiritual guide, as kind of in all the roles that I that I play and with all the hatch that I wear is how can we interrupt those stories, those narratives, those kind of patterns that we automatically find ourselves in?
00:51:30:18 – 00:52:06:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Because a lot of that is sort of was built into us, maybe intentionally even, right? Like, how convenient is it if we think women are supposed to be really thin and weak like, you know, it’s sort of like, oh, well, then they can’t do things for themselves. They can’t, you know, again, I don’t want to like, get to sort of distracted by gender roles, but I think it is it’s like everybody kind of going to their potential and what’s really their calling.
00:52:06:09 – 00:52:41:00
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And it really often in order to get to that place of who you really, really are in your most optimal self in that moment involves seeing through old narratives, old stories and old patterns, and finding your way out of those old narratives and and building something new that’s more right for you in this moment in time. And always letting that become fresh doesn’t mean you abandoned everything from before.
00:52:41:09 – 00:53:08:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It means you build on everything from before. But allowing yourself to have these pattern interrupts are really, really important. And just what you’re describing is such a beautiful example of that. Nathan To say, like basically what you just described was I’m expand the concept of what’s beautiful to me, really, right? It’s like what I thought was beauty. Let’s just say beauty, right?
00:53:08:22 – 00:53:32:07
Dr. Maya Shetreat
What I thought was beauty included these things and now includes this many more things. And it’s like, wow, like now beauty is just you see more beauty in world like, than you did before. It’s like that’s really what it comes down to. And that’s like, freaking amazing. And if we could all see that kind of beauty more so, right?
00:53:32:11 – 00:53:39:20
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It’s, it’s like, wow, what an amazing life. We would all be living right to see beauty everywhere or more.
00:53:40:17 – 00:54:06:10
Nathan Crane
It’s so I want to go back to psychedelics a little bit and your personal experiences with psychedelics, like do you have an experience that you can share that was like life changing for you? I mean, you talk a little bit about your experience in Ecuador, but was there something, some plant that you had an experience with or some or multiple experiences with that?
00:54:06:10 – 00:54:31:20
Nathan Crane
Like? Because I know for me, like, like I said, mushrooms saved my life and I can share that story if we want to. But I want to know from from you, like, have you had some really profound experiences with psychedelics that helped your life tremendously and then what led you? And then let’s go back to your son. Like after all of that, then, you know, what did you end up learning and doing for your son and his health?
00:54:32:19 – 00:55:04:07
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah, well, so I’ll say just to start with, I’m very I am sparing very selective about any, like we could say, microdosing experiences. I’m very sensitive to them and, and I feel real sense of I grow a lot of these plants lately. I don’t ingest them, but I tend them. I care for them, I work with them, and and therefore I have a really strong relationship with them.
00:55:04:18 – 00:55:34:00
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You know, I am someone who really feels a sense of communication with the plants that I grow and care for. And it’s a very reciprocal kind of relationship. So I do feel I’m in really close and like intimate relationship with the plant. These plants, like I was San Pedro and others, but I did, yes, have very profound experiences, particularly with San Pedro Cactus.
00:55:35:03 – 00:56:05:09
Dr. Maya Shetreat
When I was when I was in Ecuador and and it was actually I didn’t even realize how transformative it was at the time, which is often the case. And it’s just like, wait, what just happened? But but it was really interesting. It was very a very gentle experience. And he really came to me and, you know, I had this whole very like he told me things, right.
00:56:05:09 – 00:56:32:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Like and this is a very common experience that people do have with master plants is, oh, like the mushrooms told me or ayahuasca told me or right where you know, now people are working with things like ketamine or MDMA in the same kind of way. And those are either legal, are much closer to legal in the U.S., for instance.
00:56:33:03 – 00:56:58:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But nobody’s like, oh, the MDMA told me I right. It’s a very different relationship because these plants are they are like, you know, really beings and they come with their their personality and their guidance in this very particular way. So I did have an experience like that. And in that experience I was like pregnant. And I gave birth to myself in this journey.
00:56:58:16 – 00:57:25:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And the plant was like, now, you know, we’re family and now we’re going to work together. And then I want to say something. I did have this whole beautiful experience and I wrote about it and everything, and then I left Ecuador and I really forgot about it. Now I say forgot. I was like, Oh, yeah, that happened. But I didn’t like really have the support or guidance and maybe the wherewithal.
00:57:25:06 – 00:57:51:00
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Maybe I wasn’t ready. I mean, you know, all of those things can be true at the same time to really integrate that and say, What does this really mean? Like, what does that mean? We’re going to be working together? Like, I just kind of continued my life. And it was definitely it became very different very quickly, which is another thing that can happen when you work with master plants is, you know, you change and then your life changes.
00:57:51:10 – 00:58:14:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so this is one of the reasons not to say that they’re just always safe. I think, as I think people already can hear, you really have to come with respect, reverence and I think preparation and hopefully guidance afterwards. Right. And being held during I mean, there’s a lot around this, which is why I think ceremony, whatever that looks like, it doesn’t mean you’re going to Ecuador.
00:58:14:04 – 00:58:42:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It doesn’t mean. Right. You could be in a you could be in a hospital, in a clinic and and have a really meaningful ceremony. And you can be in an indigenous environment and not have ceremony even if it’s supposed to be right, that can happen. So but I do think all of that is so important. But part of why I say beware and really prepare yourself is that you can change in a significant way.
00:58:42:16 – 00:59:05:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And I wouldn’t say it’s for the worse. It’s just you change and then your life can change because things that might have been tolerable to you before that, you were like, you know, this is just the way it is. It’s like you can’t do that anymore, you know? And that could be really toxic. Things like addictions that are really holding you back and destroying your health.
00:59:05:22 – 00:59:30:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It can be relationships that maybe you thought you wanted to be in and then you can see how they’re not serving you and how they’re hurting you. Right? I mean, there’s a lot of things that can come up from these kinds of experiences, and that did happen for me. I would say somewhat more gradually, but but not not that gradually.
00:59:30:12 – 01:00:06:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So, you know, it’s important, I think, to understand that these experiences really do open your eyes to yourself and to things around you in ways that you may not expect and your life might change. And, you know, I’ve had people say to me, I really, really think I want to go to an Oscar ceremony, but I’m probably I’m probably not going to want to stay in my marriage afterwards, so I’m not going to go right now.
01:00:07:05 – 01:00:20:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Interesting. And it is interesting, right, Because there are these it’s sort of like when I work with people, there are these ways in which like we it’s like we already know certain things about our lives, but we really don’t want to.
01:00:21:12 – 01:00:25:09
Nathan Crane
Don’t want to face it because it’s just it’s so challenging and scary.
01:00:26:01 – 01:00:26:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah.
01:00:27:00 – 01:00:41:11
Nathan Crane
So are you someone that’s like and actually don’t know? I mean, I have a sense, but are you someone that’s only done a handful of psychedelic experiences or have you done like dozens or hundreds?
01:00:41:11 – 01:01:11:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Ooh, I have definitely not done hundreds. And I, you know, so I’ll just say I think there are a lot of ways to engage with these medicines and these teachers. Like I said, you know, for many people it’s like either you’re having, you know, the journey in this like cannonballs and fireworks and hands and, you know, you’re vomiting into the bucket and all of this like of very big dramatic experience.
01:01:12:13 – 01:01:15:17
Nathan Crane
Ten, ten years of therapy and like one evening.
01:01:15:17 – 01:01:42:09
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Kind of right. Kind of that idea. And and then there’s kind of what we call so that’s like a shamanic dose. But there’s actually what we have is like and this is this is traditional way of looking at it. There’s the kind of what they call the aphrodisiac dose, which is kind of in between the shamanic dose, right?
01:01:42:09 – 01:02:08:17
Dr. Maya Shetreat
That boom, explosions kind of way and and the micro dose. So there’s something in between. And that is they call kind of the aphrodisiac dose, which is you’re you’re altered, you’re seeing things, but you’re not like kind of in this out of control place, let’s say. And very often that’s like what the healer will will take that amount, not a big wild amount.
01:02:08:17 – 01:02:32:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And in some cultures I just want to also add and some in some communities, you know, the the healer the cure and thero or you know wherever you are is the only one who takes the medicine to look into you and see what what’s making you sick. Right. It’s not like it’s not the other way around always. So I just want to say that.
01:02:32:21 – 01:03:04:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But but then. So there’s that aphrodisiac dose, and then there’s the medicinal dose, which we could also call like a micro dose. And, and that’s non psychedelic in the sense that you’re not altered to the point that you can’t operate in your daily life. It might make you feel different. You might feel more like open, more heart opening, You might notice things, you might feel more creative, you might see synchronicities that you might not otherwise see and might be easier for you to do.
01:03:04:14 – 01:03:25:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Some of the things like we talked about of like taking that pause rather than just like falling into despair. Right? Like those kinds of those kinds of things can, can happen with a microdosing experience. And, you know, there are all kinds of medicinal benefits, which we can talk about as well if you want to. But all of these ways are ways to engage with the medicine.
01:03:25:11 – 01:03:49:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So I’ve engaged in many different ways, like that. And then there’s quantum dosing, which is actually a kind of newer technology, but it is a way of it’s like a vibrational medicine where it’s made in ceremony, in the presence of the plant with the help of the plant, but without destroying or taking actual plant material and putting it into the medicine.
01:03:49:11 – 01:04:16:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And that’s like a really beautiful and interesting way to work with the plant. And I noticed that quantum dosing was something possible because. People would reach out to me sometimes and say, I want to, I’m interested in Microdosing or I’m interested in Microdosing. And they would schedule a time to talk to me about it. And and as soon as they did that, their life would start to change and I would watch this sort of unfold.
01:04:16:20 – 01:04:38:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Maybe they would never even ingest the plant, but I would see that they were in relationship with the plant there. They would be hearing, you know, I really want I really like I’m interested Niska, can we talk about that? And then it would be like ayahuasca is in their life and they’re starting to make the changes and do the things and they never even had to ingest the plant.
01:04:38:16 – 01:04:41:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So I would have the energy.
01:04:41:04 – 01:04:45:23
Nathan Crane
Just being in the presence of the energy of the plant can make some shifts for people.
01:04:46:08 – 01:05:14:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It’s a relationship, like everything. I mean, I could tell you from literally the level of our microbiome and our mitochondria all the way up that we are co-creating with each other and there’s no fixed thing. There’s no like you have to do this to get this. It’s just almost not ever true. You can experience in this case, you know, people talk in indigenous communities.
01:05:15:03 – 01:05:36:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It’s not like it’s not like ayahuasca. The compounds in ayahuasca do. X-Y-Z Nobody talks about it like that. They talk about the spirit of ayahuasca or the mother of ayahuasca. Is the medicine you’re in relationship with the mother of ayahuasca. You should bring something out into the forest for the mother of ayahuasca to show her that you are ready, work with her.
01:05:36:14 – 01:06:00:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so that’s what I’m finding and was finding with people that they were kind of coming with their offering in a sense. And the mother of ayahuasca, the spirit of ayahuasca, let’s say, was like, yes, like we’re ready. You’re ready for me, I’m ready for you. And so quantum dosing is actually this beautiful way to, you know, what I call it, a ceremony in a bottle.
01:06:00:21 – 01:06:26:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So there is in the making of it, there is medicine, songs, there are sacred smoke, there’s stones, there’s the plant itself, and actually even music of the plants with the these devices that really play the music from the from the plants. Leaf you know, maybe some people know about this technology. All of those things are part of the quantum medicine.
01:06:27:06 – 01:07:00:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And we know right we now know and there’s beautiful science around how DNA can imprint in the right frequency setting. DNA can imprint into liquid, and you can actually see that that DNA is imprinted into the liquid simply because it’s in the right frequency environment. The water is next to the the thing, right, that you are kind of extracting the DNA, but not destroying the product, not destroying, let’s say, the plant in this case.
01:07:00:23 – 01:07:24:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And these plants are being over consumed now and only I think will be more so as this becomes more and more decriminalized, as it becomes more and more popular and mainstream. You know, there’s you know, there’s a lot of mushrooms, there’s a lot of ayahuasca, there’s a lot of San Pedro. But are they being grown in a good way?
01:07:24:19 – 01:07:56:17
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Are they being preserved in a good way, etc., etc.? Are we going to experience their medicine or their Malus? Right. It all depends on how we’re coming. So quantum drops, quantum dosing is a really nice way, I think, to engage with the mother of the medicine, right, the spirit of the medicine and that vibrational energy and the ceremony of it and experience those changes and that guidance and that support and no harm comes to the planet.
01:07:57:20 – 01:07:58:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You know.
01:07:58:24 – 01:08:28:12
Nathan Crane
Hey, I just want to pause a second. Ask you, are you enjoying this episode so far? Are you getting good value from this content? If so, then I know you’re going to absolutely love healing life at Healing Life dot Net. You get exclusive and premiere access to hundreds of the top world’s doctors, experts, cancer conquerors, and survivors. Exclusive interviews that I have done with all these experts and doctors that are not available for free online.
01:08:28:12 – 01:08:50:14
Nathan Crane
They’re only available at healing life dot net. So not only do you get access to all of those, but you actually get to speak with these doctors and experts and ask them any question you want about health and healing. And this is available exclusively to healing life members. You can try it out for free. Go to healing life dot net, and you can start your free trial there.
01:08:50:22 – 01:09:18:11
Nathan Crane
And whether you’re interested in learning more about detox or, cancer, diet and nutrition and nutritional science, about diabetes, about heart disease, autoimmune disease, anti-aging, longevity, all of these topics are covered in depth, and more are continuing to be added at healing life. And again, you get to talk to these doctors yourself. So I invite you to set up a free trial at Healing Life dot Net, and I hope to see you over there.
01:09:18:14 – 01:09:25:09
Nathan Crane
Now, let’s get back to the show. You’re going to are you going to bring some to our retreat next month?
01:09:25:09 – 01:09:28:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Absolutely.
01:09:28:05 – 01:09:36:24
Nathan Crane
No, it’s really because you just like you just you have a new product line where you’re making these, right?
01:09:36:24 – 01:09:38:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I do. I do.
01:09:38:22 – 01:10:16:16
Nathan Crane
And it’s really cool, actually. Really powerful medicine on like there was a there’s a company that made these patches and if you know about it, it literally takes the energy of like a whole bunch of, like natural anti-inflammatory and antioxidant high rich antioxidant inflammatory plants and infuses energy into these patches. And then you put the patch on an inflamed or painful in your body and they do like thermography and they look and they show literally how like that inflamed area which would show up as very red hot.
01:10:16:16 – 01:10:54:08
Nathan Crane
Basically it goes back to like green and blue where we are. Is there anyone and all they did I say all but all they did. There’s no actual plant matter or material in the patch. It’s a patch with the energy of the plants on the patch that you put on your body and you get the benefits. So the scientists coming out around this and in a lot of different ways and how it’s showing up in how we can use, you know, the application of it for health and wellness I think is pretty fascinating just transferring that energy into ourselves.
01:10:54:08 – 01:10:55:17
Nathan Crane
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting.
01:10:56:06 – 01:11:24:24
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well it is really beautiful and I’m very lucky that the person who is who bottles this for me. So I make the original medicine and then he does the bottling in his facility. So he said, I know you’re going to want things to be in a particular way. So Just show me what you need. And so I made this sort of little sacred space, this altar, and I sent it to him with a picture and instructions and he said, Oh, I’m going to build a table, because he’s also, of course, a master carpenter.
01:11:25:04 – 01:11:49:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I’m going to build a table and this will be permanent in our production area. And then, you know, he plays music while it’s being bottled and all of this stuff. It’s amazing. But in addition to that, he’s actually as a scientist, he has his own company, does his own research, and he was like, he’s so excited to measure the outcomes at this quantum medicine, you know, with quantum drops.
01:11:49:11 – 01:12:11:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so we’ve actually started designing studies that. We’re going to be able to look at the benefits. And he has done this with other companies that do this kind of like vibrational or energetic medicine that have products because he’s got a lab. So he’s able to really do that. And, you know, he called me just the other day and was like, I have so many ideas of how we can do this.
01:12:11:21 – 01:12:35:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And we like totally just talked about how we can measure it because like I said, I do have these sort of like ideas, right? And these sort of like vision visions of what things could be. But I also am not interested in like la la la, right? I want it to be like practical, beneficial. I want to be able to show that.
01:12:36:00 – 01:13:01:14
Nathan Crane
Yeah, I think we have that in common. It’s like that. The more I learn and dive into any kind of spiritual path or any kind of healing path or any kind of, you know, health topic, it’s like I, want to understand it? I want to know it. I want to know as much about it as I can. But then I also want to make it applicable and and shareable and make it accessible.
01:13:01:16 – 01:13:42:11
Nathan Crane
Right? And so, I mean, I’ve sat at the feet of what many people would call spiritual masters, you know, and listen to them and studied with them for three years. And it’s there are some of them who take you around in a big confusing circle. And and there’s some benefit to that with their teachings, where you’re always kind of questioning what’s going on, what’s actually being said, what is even the hell is he talking about kind of thing, you know, And, and for me, it was like I got at some point I was just like, I had enough of that.
01:13:42:11 – 01:14:09:21
Nathan Crane
Like, I want to know, like, just take me straight to the truth, you know? And the truth, I believe the truth is something should be very straightforward, should be very simple. Now, it may be complex. There may be multiple sides to it in multiple facets, but it is it should be pretty straightforward, you know, in the sense that I can understand it and I can take something complex, complicated and simplify it, which is what?
01:14:10:05 – 01:14:31:17
Nathan Crane
Which is what I do as an independent researcher, you know, for cancer and for cancer patients is like, I’ll go and read thousands of pages of, you know, sometimes confusing scientific literature and, you know, opposing viewpoints and things like that, and then consolidate it and then make it as simple as possible people to understand. It’s just something I don’t know if I’m good at it.
01:14:31:17 – 01:14:59:05
Nathan Crane
It’s something I enjoy doing because I want to be able to understand something simply, even if it is really complicated and complex and, you know, I think we’re in a time where that’s really needed, where it’s really needed that people share wisdom from a place of of simplicity.
01:14:59:05 – 01:15:36:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, I think that I would say I feel yes. And about what you’re saying, because I think that, you know, I think that those spiritual teachers who sort of can take you in circles and when I say like spiritual masters are like these gurus, I always feel a little I always feel a little reticence around that because there’s a lot sometimes there can be a lot of ego, a lot of right.
01:15:36:21 – 01:16:20:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
There’s a lot of potential when people have that kind of power to also, I don’t want to say abuse it. I do think it is it can be abuse it, but also just wield it in ways that might not be always in the benefit and interest of of everyone else. And so so it is tricky. But I do think that part of what the spiritual path really asks of us is to get out of that idea that we can just go from point you know straight from point A to point Z, like WOOP.
01:16:21:00 – 01:16:55:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You know, at least this has been my experience is every time I think I’m sort of on this trajectory where I’m like, Oh, yes, this, you know, now I know how to it’s like there’s always something that’s going to turn me upside down along the way at least once, at least many times often, you know. And I find that the more I really progress in my understanding of that, the more I just kind of expect that like like I think that idea that things can be like, really linear is just it’s not wrong.
01:16:55:13 – 01:17:34:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I think they can be. But often to get to that straightforward place, it takes a lot of winding and upside down and up and down and all of that. So I’m like, I really have a lot of respect for the being in the question. I have a lot of respect for the not knowing. And and in my mind, there’s something really valuable about discernment and being rational about things, and there’s also something really valuable and sacred about mystery and things we can never know are questions that will always remain questions.
01:17:34:21 – 01:17:54:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And that’s actually like, I think, a really important part of, of life. And for us to really be in that place of humility. I mean, everything that we think we understand right now, you know, and I think most scientists agree, like at least half of it is wrong, and then the rest of it is going to develop differently than what we think.
01:17:54:21 – 01:18:14:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And that’s kind of beautiful in a way, right? Like, we want certainty. We’re comfortable with certainty. We’ve been conditioned to think certainty means we’re superior in some way. But in fact there’s a lot we don’t know, you know, I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know if I want to really get into this topic and certainly not any expertise that I have.
01:18:14:03 – 01:18:31:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But on one of the calls I had with my my community, with my students, we people wanted to talk about like, are there aliens? And I thought it was such an edge. And we weren’t. Like I said, I don’t have like a specific position on it, although I mean, it will kind of shock me if we were really like the only life in the entire universe.
01:18:31:16 – 01:18:56:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But I’m not like married to one particular idea around it. But we just like had this very kind of open discussion about it. And it was like, so interesting, so, so beautiful, so fascinating just to hear where people are with it and, you know, I love questions. I’m willing to really entertain anything. Am I going to like am I going touted this truth?
01:18:56:22 – 01:19:28:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Am I going to go out and promote it? I mean, no, There are things that feel very true to me that those are things that I really feel I can support, that you know, I’m going to talk about in that way. But living into the question is very much to me the spiritual path. And like I said, I learning, I will say to respect that kind of being an expert in not knowing and like where we are living in a lot of the paradox, you know.
01:19:28:16 – 01:19:58:18
Nathan Crane
Yeah, no, that was beautifully said. And it reminded me of like a while back a number of years ago. It’s like as I kind of was a few years into, the Earth, I’d say my spiritual journey. So that started when I was like 18, 17, 18, 17, 18 years ago. After like five years, I think I kind of felt like I knew it all.
01:19:58:18 – 01:20:26:03
Nathan Crane
You know, it was like and I was being asked to, like, teach all over the country. And I was writing blogs and articles and books and I was teaching retreats and conferences. And it was like this. It was this. It was like, it’s what I call spiritual ego, right? It was like, didn’t seem like I had an ego, but there was the ego that was there behind it all that was like, Oh, yeah, I know all of this and this religion over here is wrong and this is wrong and this and that.
01:20:26:11 – 01:20:55:08
Nathan Crane
And then I had some big awakenings, realized I didn’t know anything at all. It was I knew very little actually. And there’s still so much for me to learn. And I feel that way today still. And and I hope I feel like ways this my life really being in that humble place of okay yeah I might know some things and have some experience and have some some ideas and thoughts and hopefully some wisdom to share.
01:20:55:16 – 01:21:46:00
Nathan Crane
But there’s still so much more for me to discover about my own beliefs, about my own viewpoints, about religion, spirituality, this life, the afterlife, the next life that all of it, you know, all of it. And even I spent, you know, 15 years researching heavily health and the science behind health and healing. And it’s like I’m still discovering and learning more and I’m sharing this because went I was I had a friend from the gym mentioned to me, well, basically they invited me to a Bible study group last night and they’re primarily Christian and I think Protestant primarily, you know, Christian had the Old Testament and New Testament, and they meet once a month and
01:21:46:00 – 01:22:03:20
Nathan Crane
there’s, you know, five or six guys, seven young guys from the gym who get together and have a Bible study. And they didn’t invite me like, oh, hey, we should invite this guy. They didn’t have that feeling towards me. Actually, a friend of mine was like, Oh, I didn’t. He was talking to somebody else about it and I was like, Oh, I didn’t want to leave you out.
01:22:03:20 – 01:22:23:14
Nathan Crane
I know, I know. That’s not really your thing. That’s the reason I didn’t invite you. But I just didn’t want you to think we were talking about something without you. We were talking about our Bible study, and I was like. I was like, Why do you think I wouldn’t be interested? Well, I don’t know. You’re, you know, just have some perception of me that more maybe spiritual guy over here or whatever and don’t believe in all this.
01:22:24:00 – 01:22:40:14
Nathan Crane
And I was like, I’d love to go, you know, like, I’ve I’ve read quite a bit of the Bible, and I actually have an interesting, I’d say have an interesting relationship with Jesus. And and I think there’s there’s a lot of good in it. I said I’d love to join you guys. So they actually invited me. So I went last night.
01:22:40:14 – 01:23:21:06
Nathan Crane
And, you know, it’s so interesting to see how close minded you can be on one particular thing and have no awareness or acceptance of all this other. Really is like, I’ve been really blessed because I’ve been so open minded spiritually to study, you know, to chant with the hardy Christians and study with Hindus, to spend many, many hours meditating with, you know, Buddhist monks and Zen masters and, you know, many indigenous ceremonies with Native Americans and on and on and on and a lot of different traditions and spiritual practices and religious and religions with an open mind.
01:23:21:17 – 01:23:46:18
Nathan Crane
Not that this one is the right one. This is wrong with all of that, but having an open. And so I think I have kind of a a little bit of an open acceptance of all of it, that there’s good in all of it. And in that conversation there, there was someone who was like, well, in this book, if any part of this book is wrong, is it in the Bible?
01:23:47:10 – 01:24:16:21
Nathan Crane
If there’s one error in this at all, then then I can’t believe any of it. So I have to believe of it as fact as the word of God written, you know, written by man, inspired by God. Otherwise, it’s all false. And I’m like, exactly. Like it doesn’t exactly in the sense that we don’t have to have that extreme of a belief in something to to understand its depth, to understand its wisdom.
01:24:16:21 – 01:24:47:15
Nathan Crane
And in fact, I actually think there’s a lot of truth and wisdom in that book. And I also think there’s some some fallacy and some error and some men writing out of ego in control and things like that in the book as well, doesn’t mean you have throw the whole thing out. You know, it’s like I look at it with an open mind and say, okay, what in here is wisdom and what is divinely inspired and what is good it and what is it that’s maybe more just coming from man’s ego or self-control or whatever it might be.
01:24:48:08 – 01:25:07:12
Nathan Crane
And that allows me I feel like to to gain, you know, a lot out of that. Whereas from his perspective was like, you believe it all or you believe nothing. And it was very strict in the sense that, you know, you, you either accept this, accept Jesus into your life and go to heaven, or you don’t. You go to hell.
01:25:07:19 – 01:25:34:02
Nathan Crane
And I’m like, like that’s pretty narrow viewpoint. So it was a I actually had a great time because I had a great participation. I asked them a lot of questions, shared some ideas, they had some interest in, in what I had to share. And I find experiences like that to be incredibly valuable, where you can go into something where maybe people are very closed minded about something, but you go in there open minded, and I couldn’t have done this even ten years ago.
01:25:34:02 – 01:25:52:10
Nathan Crane
I don’t think, you know, not at that level where like there wasn’t judgment and things like that. Like I’m right, you’re wrong. It was like, No, actually I want to hear and learn from each of you and from this book. And what about this? Did you think about this? What about the people today who are actually healers today, just like Jesus was.
01:25:52:10 – 01:26:05:01
Nathan Crane
They can they can use their hands and energy to heal people. Do you know about that? Oh, no. Never heard about that. You never heard about people like that? Just thousands of them. Why aren’t they on CNN every night? I’m like, that’s a conversation for a whole other time.
01:26:05:01 – 01:26:07:02
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But God help.
01:26:07:02 – 01:26:12:24
Nathan Crane
It was this really fascinating experience last night. I’m still kind of processing it, but.
01:26:13:05 – 01:26:47:22
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, you know, it’s interesting. I mean, I’ll bring up something a little different. Similar for me and probably will be maybe I don’t want to assume, but might be a little challenging for you just based on what I know about what you do. But I actually had a kind of interesting challenge of my preconceived ideas. So I don’t know if you know, but I was a vegetarian for a very long time from when I was 15 to when I was in my twenties until I basically was like pregnant with my daughter.
01:26:48:22 – 01:27:12:17
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I was vegetarian and it kind of started interestingly on like a dare from a boyfriend. And but I was really into it and that was like what I did for quite a long time. And then I eat meat again a little bit and I actually got very involved in like, you know, pasture raised long before people were talking about, pasture raised meat.
01:27:12:17 – 01:27:49:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And, you know, I actually like even went to like a slaughterhouse or like found people raising animals in a very humane way, etc.. I was I got very involved. Same reason because I was like, I want to know what’s really happening. And then, you know, but I’m I’m obviously anyone who’s read my book The Dirt Cure, which I talk a lot about nutrition, and I’m very I think, you know, a vegetable based diet is tremendously important and and have always eaten a very, you know, primarily vegetable based diet.
01:27:50:05 – 01:28:11:23
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And and then I you know, in the last couple of years started to have this really speaking of pain and I sort of that’s when you brought up your chronic pain. I started to have this pain, which it took forever for me to even understand what it was. It out. It was like, you know, an itchy band probably problem.
01:28:11:23 – 01:28:30:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And I was running, you know, So that was one of the things that became like a real joy for me. And like you say, when I feel confused, I call. I say when I feel like a noodle, right that way I wake up. I’m like, oh my God, I’m feeling bad. Or I feel like, you know, I just feel like it’s for me, going for a run or lifting weights is really important.
01:28:30:01 – 01:28:48:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And I and I would go for a run and I’d be in agony, agony, like I couldn’t continue to run. It felt like I was like hurting my own body. And and it was terrible, you know, because this and I run in the woods, so I’m in nature. So it was like my time in nature it was my time moving my body.
01:28:48:06 – 01:29:17:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
It was my time. Sort of all of these creative things moving forward, you know, is like a really great way to move through problems. This is actually been demonstrated in science. That forward motion actually helps you make forward motion in your life. So running for me was all of these things and I was in absolute agony when I would go running and I tried all kinds of things like, you know, I was doing stretching, I was doing red light therapy, I was doing all kinds of herbs and salves.
01:29:17:19 – 01:30:03:12
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I was just doing everything under the sun. I did Rolfing and Hella work and went to the osteopath and I mean, I did a lot a lot of things in the middle of the pandemic. So it was interesting and interesting time to have to delve into this and finally, I thought, I wonder if this is related to oxalate, which as many may know, not know OXALATE are found in a lot of vegetables, in nuts and seeds, you know, and people call them anti nutrients and I mean there’s all kinds of conversations we could go off into but but I have had a history of kidney stones when I was pregnant and I have had three
01:30:03:12 – 01:30:31:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
children. So I had some kidney stones at that time. I just thought, gosh, I wonder if it’s actually all the vegetables nuts. And that’s what I’m eating that could be doing this. And I thought, you know what? I’m going to try doing a carnivore diet for a month and see what happens and day one, 24 hours in, after 24 hours, my pain was gone.
01:30:32:04 – 01:31:06:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Gone. It had been a year and a half of agony gone in one day. And also like anxiety levels came down, my sleep came down. I was suddenly able to lift like I had made. I made a huge kind of unheard of leaps in my in my PR, like my top lift that I could do all in the first few days and week of being on this diet, which I, I couldn’t continue because it was, it’s like really, really sad for me to not eat vegetables.
01:31:06:23 – 01:31:37:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I’m like, I really like this. This just people who like me would be like, yeah, burgers and brisket and like, you know, steak, it’s like the best. And I was like, I hate this, you know, But But it was fascinating to me because I could only in my mind, you know, what I taught, what I knew, what I believed, what I loved was to eat in this one particular way that it turned out was probably at least in some way, you know, And who knows?
01:31:37:23 – 01:32:00:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I mean, I certainly wouldn’t live like that or recommend that people live like that forever. But it was fascinating. I did that for a month and then I moderated how many adults I would take in. And I mean, I knock with it here, but the pain never came back. Now, like, you know, I do my 5ki love you know, I have that back in my life and it’s everything to me to have that.
01:32:00:17 – 01:32:36:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And it required me thinking outside of a belief system that I deeply, deeply was attached to. So it’s sort of interesting kind of what you’re describing, right, is like and it’s funny because I got into a conversation with another health friend of mine who who’s not he’s not vegan, he’s not vegetarian. I mean, he’s, you know, but he was very like he heard I was I he hated is what I would say, that I got better with the carnivore diet and told me, well, you didn’t try this.
01:32:36:03 – 01:32:59:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You didn’t try it. And I’m like, yes, I did try that. Yes. Like he was so agitated in this conversation. I wasn’t like proselytizing. I was like, you know, so interesting. This happened because it was not what I expected but I thought, let me just try it because I’m kind of desperate. So it’s sort of, you know, like we have that way, whether it’s spiritual beliefs, whether it’s beliefs, health, whatever it might be.
01:32:59:21 – 01:33:19:24
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I do think it’s like I think what we have in common, in what we’re discussing and that you and I both do this, I think I’m being friends with you. All I know is, is we’re always interested in in thinking about what else there is or asking questions or being in that. Well, what if we tried this, right?
01:33:19:24 – 01:33:40:11
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Like, I love that. I think that makes life more interesting. And and we find sometimes we really do find answers that that help us, that transform our lives. And like for me, I mean, if you would have said that’s going to be what makes you feel better I mean, I would have been like you. No, get out of.
01:33:40:11 – 01:33:56:16
Nathan Crane
Here. What’s weird? What’s your what’s your diet like right now? So you have. Yeah. What’s what’s it look like now? So you did Carnivore for like a month. Felt better and then kind of and then you got low oxalate diet went on to low but what that look like for you now?
01:33:57:24 – 01:34:34:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well it means like I’ll eat very few nuts, but I and I and I try to make sure they’re soaked so that their so comes out of some of it. Right. I don’t eat a lot of high oxalate vegetables or even really a lot of like so it’s interesting when you’re and I’ve seen this actually just the oxalate question I’ve seen in a lot of pediatric neurology and adult neurology cases where like it affects kids behavior, it affects their pain levels, it affects a lot of like mitochondrial function kind of thing.
01:34:34:14 – 01:34:59:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So their energy levels their their thinking, their focus. So it’s really interesting. And I can tell based on diet, right? Like I’ll just tell people, you know, okay, tell me their diet or tell me your diet. And the hard thing about OXALATE is they’re actually found in a lot of the things we think are the most healthy like if you’re having a low oxalate diet, you’re going to be better off probably having white rice or having brown rice.
01:34:59:22 – 01:35:21:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
This is an example, right? And it’s so so sometimes the people who come to me are, you know, natural food chefs or nutrition. I mean, so they’re coming with these beliefs and they’re just like, you know, that same thing, like, get out of here. I can’t believe that. But but for me, I eat a few nuts. I don’t eat like spinach.
01:35:22:14 – 01:35:55:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I’m minimal with things, like, berries, I’m minimal with fruit, vegetables. I’m I’m just quite careful about avoiding. And I actually compiled like a whole list because there’s a lot of conflicting information out there. So for myself my patients, I kind of have a list of like good choices, you know, and potentially worse choices. So I do still eat a pretty protein focused diet, but I definitely.
01:35:55:05 – 01:35:59:19
Nathan Crane
Have protein meaning like an animal protein focused diet.
01:35:59:19 – 01:36:04:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, so like, for example, I keep chickens, so we have eggs. I don’t keep chickens. For me here.
01:36:04:06 – 01:36:06:02
Nathan Crane
In New York, you have chickens. That’s funny.
01:36:06:08 – 01:36:22:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And I have chickens. And some people now are like, Wow, you’re so lucky you keep chickens because, you know, eggs are so expensive. And I’m like, keeping chickens is expensive unless you’re keeping like a thousand chickens. I’ve probably been paying way more than what I wanted more.
01:36:22:08 – 01:36:28:24
Nathan Crane
I used to have chickens. You pay more for eggs? Yeah, with your own chickens than you do buying from store, for sure.
01:36:29:07 – 01:36:53:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But you. This goes back to relationship like I give. I know that we’re in this, like, reciprocal relationship where I give to my chickens and like they come to me they want to be picked up They they have names like I’m in relationship with them. So like when they give me eggs and I’m giving them like, scraps and treats and, you know, petting them and we have this nice thing.
01:36:55:09 – 01:37:14:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I don’t feel the same way that I would if I was just like going to the store and plunking down a ton of money for eggs that I don’t know where they come from might say nice things on the package, but like when you do kind of the deep dive, you discover they’re not really living that well. And I did, you know, a lot of that kind of research when I wrote The Dark Humor.
01:37:15:01 – 01:37:15:09
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah.
01:37:16:04 – 01:37:40:23
Nathan Crane
Interesting. Yeah, I believe it. You know, on the excellent question, I’ve done a lot of research on chocolates over the last few years specifically, and one of the things I found out is if there’s about 5% of the population that we know of so far, that is much more prone to like kidney stones and things like that than than about 95% said about 5%, which a lot of people say, like millions of people.
01:37:40:23 – 01:38:04:19
Nathan Crane
Right. That are more prone to kidney stones and have a higher negative response to oxidants in general than a lot of people who aren’t necessarily poor. I’m not saying they’re the if you have kidney stones, you’re the only ones are prone to maybe some, you know, negative deleterious effects from chocolates. But generally, that’s the research that I’ve found that I think is pretty interesting.
01:38:05:04 – 01:38:26:13
Nathan Crane
And what I’ve also found is for people who still want those, you know, because a lot of the chocolate high foods are also like, according to the research, the most anti cancer foods and most foods associated with longevity and neuroprotection and heart disease protection. Right. The Brassica family, the vets, the dark leafy greens, the beans all of these things.
01:38:27:00 – 01:38:51:22
Nathan Crane
And so I did research into like, well, how do you how are these oxalate? What are the benefits of the oxalate? Because actually actually it’s have they’re getting a bad rap right now online if you follow some people saying ox lists are terrible for you, the nutrients etc. that pull out minerals all of that but there’s really research on the incredible benefits of OXALATE, systemic oxalate in our body as well.
01:38:51:22 – 01:39:22:19
Nathan Crane
So I think that’s like looking at the whole picture of things, trying to understand things, the whole picture. Right. And how things might affect certain people differently. And so I thought, well, yeah, how do you how, how do you reduce oxalate if you still want the foods in your diet and and surprisingly so you can reduce the amount of oxalate in the foods by cooking them like beans for example you can cook out almost all of the ox lists if you cook the beans really fully to the point they’re very soft.
01:39:22:19 – 01:39:46:12
Nathan Crane
Right. Which is interesting. The green vegetables, you can soak them. There’s a method. You might know the method, forget the name at the moment, but it’s seldom. And then you boil them and then you eliminate the water and you can actually remove like 70 plus percent of oxalate from like a green vegetables. So people are worried about access but still want to eat that way are things you can do to really reduce them as well.
01:39:48:06 – 01:39:51:12
Nathan Crane
And you may just need to reduce the amount of oxidants in your diet like you did.
01:39:52:01 – 01:40:18:01
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Well, I mean, you know, for example, I still eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables, like that’s like one of the primary from a diet. But like most kale, I really can’t. Or it not, I can’t. But I just don’t eat most kale because it’s actually, you know, and I think paleo diet, which is sort of like what I more adhere to before it’s a very high oxalate diet, much higher actually than what most people might have normally done.
01:40:18:01 – 01:40:54:23
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so like bone broth can be very high and ugly. It’s berries, dark chocolate, you know, obviously like certain kinds of greens, especially kale, but like Tuscan kale is actually very low comparatively oxalate. It’s just, for example, mustard greens are okay. Like there’s so there’s a lot of, you know, I eat broccoli, cauliflower, I eat cabbage like those are all completely low oxalate and very you know and I do have like a square of dark chocolate, you know, I mean, I’m not like I’m not I’m not like a huge chocolate person in general.
01:40:54:23 – 01:41:11:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I like cacao, but like I’m not you know, I don’t need to, like, pick out on chocolate. But, you know, I think and like I said, I do have a little bit of nuts because I love nuts. And I think they’re really healthy and it’s great for me before I have beans. Don’t always like I don’t always love how my body feels when I have greens, but I, I mean beans.
01:41:11:14 – 01:41:46:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But I do feel good when I have not. So like, I do have a little bit of nuts because I like them and because I seem to be able to tolerate that. What I want to say about tolerating oxalate just for example, it also is known and I wrote a whole article about this actually about the microbiome, and it’s is there it’s known, in fact, that we’ve lost a lot of the flora actually back to our flora in particular, but certain lactobacillus as well that are that help us break down oxalate and metabolize oxalate in healthy ways.
01:41:47:05 – 01:42:07:23
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So, you know, I happen to have grown up with lots of ear infections as a little kid. You know, I was born at a time and raised in a time where antibiotics were like the be all end all. So I was on you know, I had tubes a lot of times I was on antibiotics a lot. Like basically until I was 12, I was on antibiotics many times a year.
01:42:08:06 – 01:42:10:18
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So, you know, all of those.
01:42:11:09 – 01:42:13:23
Nathan Crane
Years of digestive tract like crazy.
01:42:14:07 – 01:42:42:04
Dr. Maya Shetreat
But I will also say that my dad, you know, who was indigenous and, you know, a refugee, and his sister too. He was one of 13, but two of them at least had very severe kidney stones in their lives. And were not brought up like that. They were brought up, you know, they might have been in poverty for a significant period of time, but they certainly weren’t getting tons of antibiotics or anything like that.
01:42:42:04 – 01:43:12:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And my dad actually lost one of, you know, had a a kidney. They think probably he just had undetected, you know, maybe kidney stone that caused major kidney damage on one side. So he really only was functioning with one kidney. He died when I was young, not because of that, but so so for me, like, it makes sense, right, Looking at the context of that, that it might not just be about Flora, it might also be about maybe more genetic things or, you know, other.
01:43:12:21 – 01:43:35:02
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So for me, it makes sense to on the one hand, I’m always going to keep looking at the literature on anything, what’s coming up and what’s out around things like Flora or things we can do to write. Like also, if you’re eating more calcium when you have oxalate and the calcium will bind the oxalate and help you excrete excess oxalate.
01:43:35:02 – 01:44:03:21
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So they won’t necessarily cause problems, but oxides can cause pain syndromes. So people might not realize, like I’ve seen people move all the denier, right. Which is like pain with intercourse or just like vaginal pain. And it’s and it’s actually strangely well known in that community among even doctors that are not kind of integrative or nutritionally minded. That oxalate can be a cause of that and a lot of kind of chronic pain conditions and like M.S. and other stuff be activated because of those things.
01:44:03:21 – 01:44:38:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So like, again, it’s a it’s like always being open, you know what I mean? Not saying these are all bad or these are all good, just like with psychedelic plants, just like with people, right? You can be a really good person and also be a person with a lot of flaws and challenges. And like, there is this sort of like, how can we show up for all of this complexity and keep leaning into the questions, you know, just as with isolates?
01:44:39:03 – 01:45:06:09
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just on that topic and what you said a little earlier about like just in the last couple of years, how, you know, some big things have shifted for you. So I, I transition to 100% raw vegan in 2010, I think, and my wife and I and when my daughter was born, we did that for a full year.
01:45:06:12 – 01:45:27:24
Nathan Crane
Ravi And then after the year, then I just stayed vegan, except I would do, you know, honey bee pollen and once in a while some eggs. So basically that way up until a few years ago and then I pretty much my every time I would eat an egg, I just and we had chickens too. So it was like I’d have, I don’t know, a few eggs a week or something like that for a while, kind of off and on.
01:45:28:06 – 01:45:47:05
Nathan Crane
And then I’d have some eggs in, like I would just feel disgusted. So I was like, No more eggs. I tried an egg the other day and same thing. I got that disgusting like kind of thing. And I was like, okay. I was like, I wonder if eggs know. I might have an egg once in a while. So I tried it, like with an open mind, you know, a few.
01:45:47:05 – 01:46:34:10
Nathan Crane
Just a couple of years ago, I was significantly more closed minded when it came to diet for health and longevity and healing, primarily because of literally the hundreds, if not thousands of research papers that I’ve read have read on cancer, neurodegenerative disease, heart disease, diabetes, etc., and the plant based diet in its approach to helping heal those diseases, the hundreds over 400 hours of interviews I’ve done with many world leading doctors and scientists and and integrative cancer oncologists who have put people on a plant based diet and literally help them reverse cancer stage.
01:46:34:10 – 01:47:01:12
Nathan Crane
Four cancers, incurable cancers on the plant based diet, reverse the cancer, reclaim their health, etc.. The people in my own coaching program who have done the same thing. So I started following your advice a year ago and today I’m cancer free. And that’s a plant based diet, organic, whole food, nutrient dense, very diverse. Right. So when someone would say the carnivore diet or something like that, just a couple of years ago, I was like more closed minded about it than I am now.
01:47:02:10 – 01:47:27:24
Nathan Crane
And I started following people like Paul Saladino and people online who are promoting, you know, doctors who are very intelligent, promoting the carnivore diet and and watching their videos and looking into the research of what they’re claiming. Because I want to know, like with an open mind, like, is this real? Like, why are they saying these things when everything I’ve seen up to this point for over a decade shows the exact opposite?
01:47:28:14 – 01:47:47:24
Nathan Crane
Why are they saying this is a carnivore diet can heal this and is good for you? It’s good for you, etc.? And so watching all of that with an open mind and I have to say, I’m not convinced yet that a carnivore diet for humanity or any large number of people for any long period of time is a good diet.
01:47:48:15 – 01:48:07:08
Nathan Crane
I mean, there all, you know, but totally open to if that’s what somebody does and it helps them how who am I to deny that? You know, I mean, like, oh, no, that’s bad for you. You can’t do that. It’s like it helped you. How can I deny that? That’s the truth. I totally appreciate it. Respect that. And I don’t I really don’t care what people eat.
01:48:07:15 – 01:48:23:21
Nathan Crane
I used to care. I used to be very like, You need eat this way to save the planet and for animals and everyone. It’s like you eat however you want. You know I’m going to share what what I believe to be true that I have seen helped many, many thousands of people and can do that or not it really doesn’t matter.
01:48:23:22 – 01:48:52:20
Nathan Crane
Like it’s not up to me, you know, it’s up to each individual person to find what works for them. But I more open today to the fact that and for different reasons too, for the fact that someone could go on a carnivore for a month and feel better. There’s a lot of things that could cause that, right. It could be one thing in your diet, which I found out corn was something that was terrible for me.
01:48:52:24 – 01:49:13:24
Nathan Crane
It was causing me suffering for years, and I had no idea it was corn. Seven years when I found out it was corn, I got it on my diet. Those problems, knock on wood, have gone away and have stayed away to this day and hopefully they never come back. But it was like literally suffering from one thing. Sometimes it’s one plant, right?
01:49:13:24 – 01:49:35:00
Nathan Crane
Sometimes it’s one grain, sometimes it’s so, you know, I like the elimination diet for people who are having challenges, figuring out. Maybe they’re having major digestive challenges, things like that, that eliminate the elimination diet as you kind of remove a lot of the known culprits for people. And then you add culprit foods for a lot of people, add in one thing at a time and see see how you do, right?
01:49:35:00 – 01:49:54:03
Nathan Crane
I also like the idea of water fasting. Like if you water fasting for a week or two and then add it in something other than those things one thing at a time and see if you have reactions to those or the pain comes back or all that. I think there’s a lot of things that I also think giving your body a break from certain things can be really beneficial, right?
01:49:54:18 – 01:50:18:11
Nathan Crane
And I also do see like I had Terry, Dr. Terry was your good friend. I would call her a friend now. I think she’s amazing. I had her on the podcast and we had a wonderful conversation and it’s like what she for her, I mean, she’s high vegetables, high, you know, high a lot of fermented foods, but she also eats like liver and things like that.
01:50:18:11 – 01:50:22:08
Nathan Crane
And it’s like, look, that, that helped her in addition to everything else she has done.
01:50:22:20 – 01:50:48:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
So and it’s helped a lot of people because she’s actually doing clinical studies on that diet. So it’s you know, but I mean, I will say just in response that, you know, I already was on an elimination diet. I already had removed a lot of out like, you know, and this is and I did do water fasts, although not a two week water fast, but I did do regular water fasts like five day, 3 to 5 day water fasts.
01:50:49:07 – 01:51:22:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
I’m a fan of all of those, although I don’t recommend somebody just do a two week water fast without very particular supervision, because I think for a lot of people that would that could be very challenging for their bodies and especially when they eat again. But but yeah, like I agree with all of those things that it’s just it’s so interesting how there are so many and I actually would apply this not just to diet but to all kinds of vehicles of healing modalities of healing.
01:51:22:08 – 01:51:38:13
Dr. Maya Shetreat
You know, the person who gets better with I are Veda is like might proselytize I or Veda for everyone but it really actually like maybe for someone else, traditional Chinese medicine or an elimination diet or a vegan diet or what have you. Right.
01:51:38:13 – 01:52:05:03
Nathan Crane
Or going about going to Paul Saladino. So when he started is online thing and in his book it was all carnivore. All animal fruit is the devil. And now he eats a lot of fruit and he promotes fruit. Right? And I’m not picking on him. But there’s one example of of as we evolve in our understanding over time, through our experience when I started the raw vegan diet for that year, raw was the best thing in the world.
01:52:05:04 – 01:52:06:04
Nathan Crane
Everybody needs to be raw.
01:52:06:04 – 01:52:07:02
Dr. Maya Shetreat
All that too.
01:52:07:20 – 01:52:08:08
Nathan Crane
It’s like, I.
01:52:08:08 – 01:52:19:19
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Love it, by the way, I loved the raw vegan diet. I thought it was really fun and delicious. And then, like, I just one day my body was like, absolutely no more.
01:52:21:00 – 01:52:41:10
Nathan Crane
I was like, I need some cooked food. And I was like, I couldn’t beat it. Well, we also moved to like a 400-acre ranch in the middle of the desert, 2 hours away from the nearest grocery store. So it was really hard to get good organic foods to make there. Absolutely. We needed I was just like, one day we just cooked up some rice and beans and I was like, All right, they’re off.
01:52:41:10 – 01:52:45:21
Nathan Crane
Who’s done? But I still eat, you know? Hi, Raw or a lot of, you know, still have raw.
01:52:45:22 – 01:52:46:16
Dr. Maya Shetreat
All right. Yeah.
01:52:46:21 – 01:53:16:24
Nathan Crane
But it was just like I went from proselytizing it to like, okay. You know, and that’s the thing that I’m more aware of now than anything. I discover something new being that, hey, you know, I can share my experience with this, but, you know, going out and like, pushing it all over the place to everybody, you know, as this is the thing that everyone needs to do, it’s like I just I’m very careful about, you know, not doing that anymore.
01:53:18:01 – 01:53:20:11
Nathan Crane
We’re Trying to be trying to be. I’m not perfect, that’s for sure.
01:53:21:05 – 01:53:45:06
Dr. Maya Shetreat
No, of course. And like, you know, because we assume other people haven’t discovered, you know, quote unquote, discovered that yet. Maybe they already have already moved through that or whatever. Or in my case, you know, like I started learning with a lot of indigenous people who, you know, the people that I knew and I learned within the communities that I, you know, shared food with.
01:53:46:09 – 01:54:13:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And there are certain meats they would never eat, but they would never not eat meat like they were, you know, they would eat they have certain meats they always eat. And it’s like, you know, or they hunt. And that’s like how they live. And so there is also like kind of this built in privilege when we make these assumptions like of how people should eat, it assumes we can get certain foods all year round that we’re not necessarily always eating seasonally maybe, or that we can access things that other people can’t access.
01:54:13:03 – 01:54:39:03
Dr. Maya Shetreat
And so it is interesting because of course, what I know about indigenous communities is their chronic disease and cancer, and all of that is practically nonexistent in places that they’re living their traditional way of life. And so that’s also very interesting, right, that there’s there’s a long lineage of eating in particular ways that most of us don’t necessarily eat.
01:54:39:11 – 01:54:53:14
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Yeah, wild, wild meat, for example, let’s say, or wild vegetables or just fruit because that’s what you can pick and get and vegetables, and especially in certain tropical places, is much harder to grow. So yeah, it’s that’s interesting.
01:54:53:21 – 01:55:15:06
Nathan Crane
That’s a two hour conversation on its own and we should have that again in the future. I know we’ve I know we’re up for time so you one Thank you. This has been awesome. And I have like 100 other things I want to ask you. And so got to have you back in the future if you’d like to come back.
01:55:15:18 – 01:55:16:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Worse.
01:55:17:10 – 01:55:29:13
Nathan Crane
And to you have a new book all about psychedelics that has just come out when this podcast is being released, have it coming out with the summit. What’s the title of the book? Where can people find it?
01:55:30:09 – 01:56:01:00
Dr. Maya Shetreat
The book is called The Master Plant Experience the Science, Safety and Sacred Ceremony of Psychedelics. And it is very much about making a relationship. I go about what’s happening in your body, what we need, what what that sort of feeling of disconnection that really most illness and disease in fact, is actually about being out of relationship and being not in good community with our bodies and in our lives.
01:56:02:07 – 01:56:33:08
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Nonjudgmental, but but ways to kind of rebuild that. It is definitely my particular view on how to work with these medicines. So it’s not like a RA ra ra. Let’s all take psychedelics point of view, but how to really be educated and an educated person around the science, around the safety and how to engage respectfully and ceremonially for people who want to either, you know, microdosing, microdosing or quantum dosing with these medicines.
01:56:33:08 – 01:56:40:09
Nathan Crane
Awesome. I’m excited to get a copy of it when it comes out. And yeah, thanks again. Appreciate you.
01:56:40:23 – 01:56:46:05
Dr. Maya Shetreat
Thank you so much, Nathan. It was a pleasure.