Dr. Robert Verkerk: Navigating Complex Environmental Challenges | Nathan Crane Podcast 29

ūüĒī Ready to make a difference for our planet? Discover solutions at¬†https://nathancrance.com/¬†Ready to make a profound impact on our planet? Join us as we delve into solutions with Dr. Robert Verkerk on the Nathan Crane podcast.

Dr. Robert Verkerk PhD is a multi-disciplinary scientist, researcher, educator, and regulatory expert with nearly 40 years of experience in the non-profit sector, academia and as a consultant. He has a MSc and PhD from Imperial College London where he continued as a postdoctoral research fellow for a further 7 years, working on projects in Eastern and Southern Africa, as well as Central and South-East Asia. Explore the intricacies of environmental challenges, from the far-reaching effects of pollution to the transformative potential of embracing sustainability. Discover insights that pave the way for a brighter, interconnected future. Rob Verkerk PhD is a multi-disciplinary scientist, researcher, educator, and regulatory expert with nearly 40 years of experience in the non-profit sector, academia and as a consultant. He has a MSc and PhD from Imperial College London where he continued as a postdoctoral research fellow for a further 7 years, working on projects in Eastern and Southern Africa, as well as Central and South-East Asia.

In 2002, Dr Verkerk founded the non-profit Alliance for Natural Health (ANH) International (anhinternational.org) and has acted as its executive and scientific director since. ANH has been at the forefront of protecting and promoting natural and regenerative health approaches internationally. He is a Fellow of the American College of Nutrition and scientific advisor to the UK-based integrative cancer charity, Yes to Life. Here’s a few highlights that the ANH has been directly involved in making happen. 

  • We helped pass the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA), the law under which supplements are regulated.
  • ANH filed nine precedent-setting lawsuits against the FDA establishing qualified health claims for dietary supplements. Then we successfully sued FDA to allow certain qualified health claims relating to cancer for selenium, vitamin C, and vitamin E.
  • We won a lawsuit allowing for the communication of importance of consuming folate during pregnancy.
  • We sent 1.3 million messages to policymakers in support of our legislation calling for Congress to allow free speech about the benefits of supplements.
  • POM Wonderful was sued by FTC. We supported their defense to defend free speech about their product‚Äôs benefits.

Dangerous Drugs

  • ANH submitted a Citizens Petition to the FDA calling for the addition of a pneumonia warning on all proton pump inhibitor (PPI) medications.¬†

Other

  • We helped win greater price transparency at hospitals, culminating in an administrative rule requiring hospitals to post an online list of their standard charges.

Your host, Nathan Crane, is a Certified Holistic Cancer Coach, Best-Selling Author, Inspirational Speaker, Cancer-Health Researcher and Educator, and 20X Award Winning Documentary Filmmaker with Over 15 Years in the Health Field.

Visit The Nathan Crane Podcast on YouTube to watch the full podcast!

What was your biggest takeaway from today’s episode?

Let me know in the comment section below! I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and if you got something useful out of it, make sure to Like, Comment & Subscribe so you never miss a new episode!

Check out more of The Nathan Crane Podcast here:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6IO2h2UhUHMD0jFRs416D6?si=102ea8f5cc754cf9 

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nathan-crane-podcast/id1672391751

Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/2722a3b5-96bf-4bd9-a14f-56434ef67896/the-nathan-crane-podcast 

Tune In: http://tun.in/ps0uN 

Stitcher: https://listen.stitcher.com/yvap/?af_dp=stitcher://show/1058629&af_web_dp=https://www.stitcher.com/show/1058629&deep_link_value=stitcher://show/1058629 

iHeartRadio: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-nathan-crane-podcast-109318006/ 

Deezer: https://deezer.page.link/iyGY9qY5EjcowcE7A 

Connect with Nathan Crane!

Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/NaturalHealthNathanCrane

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mr_nathan_crane/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NathanCraneOfficialPage/ 

Websites: https://nathancrane.com/      

www.Becomingcancerfree.com        

www.Healinglife.net

Check out our guest Dr. Robert Verkerk PhD on Social Media!  

Website: http://www.anhinternational.org

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anhintl/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO2FSPOwjIyRX8z9tgp52gg

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ANHInternational/

#environmentalawareness #sustainableliving #ChangeForEarth

Audio Transcript

(This transcript was auto-generated so there may be some errors)

00;00;00;01 – 00;00;34;10

Nathan Crane

Everybody, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for joining me here. I am happy to bring on Robert for Kirk, who is a multidisciplinary scientist, researcher, educator and regulatory expert. With nearly 40 years of experience in the non-profit sector, academia, and also as a consultant. He has an M.S. and a Ph.D. from Imperial College, London, where he continued as a postdoctoral research fellow for a further seven years working on projects in Africa as well as Asia.

00;00;34;20 – 00;01;07;12

Nathan Crane

In 2002, Dr. Vir Kirk founded the non-profit Alliance for Natural Health International. You can look at their website, an H International dot org. He’s acted as its executive and scientific director and has been at the forefront of protecting and promoting natural and regenerative health approaches internationally. Here’s a few highlights I want to share with you and hopefully Robert will get to talk about some of these things in depth that the ANC has been directly involved in helping make happen.

00;01;07;13 – 00;01;37;01

Nathan Crane

They passed they helped pass the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, which is the law under which supplements are regulated. They filed nine precedent setting lawsuits against FDA establishing qualified health claims for dietary supplements. Then you guys successfully sued the FDA to allow certain qualified health claims relating to cancer for selenium, vitamin C and Vitamin E. You guys won a lawsuit allowing for the communication of importance of consuming folate during pregnancy.

00;01;37;27 – 00;02;05;19

Robert Verkerk

You have sent over 1.3 million messages to policymakers in support of legislation calling for Congress to allow free speech about the benefits of supplements. POM was sued, Pure and wonderful was sued by the FTC. You supported their defense to defend free speech about their products, benefits. You had submitted a citizen’s petition to the FDA calling for the addition of pneumonia, warning on all proton proton pump inhibitors.

00;02;06;20 – 00;02;35;06

Nathan Crane

You’ve helped to bring greater price transparency at hospitals, culminating in administrative rule requiring hospitals to post an online list of their standard charges. And you have an amazing YouTube video. I mean, YouTube channel, people haven’t seen it. Go check it out and subscribe where you put up great YouTube videos about different issues that are happening in the environment and in the natural health space and different things that we as individuals can do about it.

00;02;35;06 – 00;03;02;08

Nathan Crane

And looking at different ways to pass new legislation, basically to help help people live a healthier, more vital natural life. And so I love the work that you’ve been doing through the NIH for a long time, and I’m excited to dove into some of these and a lot of other topics with you in this in this podcast. So, Robert, thank you so much for joining me here.

00;03;02;27 – 00;03;05;06

Robert Verkerk

Nathan It’s absolute treat to be with you.

00;03;06;22 – 00;03;20;12

Nathan Crane

I want to ask you about the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act so that is basically the act that correct me if I’m wrong, that prevents supplement companies from making false claims on supplements. Is that right?

00;03;20;29 – 00;03;53;05

Robert Verkerk

Well, yeah. Look, it’s a much wider regulatory regime that covers dietary, you know, all kinds of dietary supplements. The what a lot of people around today hadn’t realized is that actually there was a plan, you know, leading up to 1994 when it was passed to actually medicalised supplements. So when you say we’ve been involved since that time, our original precursor, our organization has had three different names.

00;03;53;05 – 00;04;33;10

Robert Verkerk

So the American Preventative Medical Association then became the the Health Freedom Associate, the American Health Freedom Association, and then it became Alliance for Natural Health, USA. So back in in 1982, the FDA was getting into the habit of raiding doctor’s offices. So Jonathan Wright, who was one of our co-founders, you may know Jonathan right from the Tahoma Clinic, had been prescribing high dose nutrients for cancer patients and to, you know, for all sorts of different conditions.

00;04;33;23 – 00;05;09;07

Robert Verkerk

And the FDA raided his office, confiscated a whole bunch of things, never held him culpable, but took, you know, tens of thousands of dollars worth of stock try to darken his reputation, but found him guilty of no crime at all. And this was this was part of the process. And, of course, you will on the lead up to it, you may know that there were more citizens writing to Congress than on any other issue in the lead up.

00;05;09;07 – 00;05;43;11

Robert Verkerk

And of course, the trade associations have historically been somewhat split over some of these regulatory issues. But of course, that’s partially because there are pharmaceutical interests involved in the dietary supplement area. In fact, most of the cheap, low cost supplements that are selling in CBC, Wal-Marts, etc. are made by the pharma industry. So for them, they love the idea of dumbed down supplements that really don’t do anything to profound to the body.

00;05;43;22 – 00;06;11;21

Robert Verkerk

And it allows them to control if they can get rid of the innovators all well and good. So, you know, a small group of companies got together and that’s when if you haven’t seen the famous Mel Gibson ad as an ad in which that was released on U.S. television on the lead up to the show being passed, that was central to changing public opinion on this.

00;06;12;02 – 00;06;44;07

Robert Verkerk

And basically a SWAT team invades his house and grabs them and arrest them and they grab a, you know, a bottle of vitamin C and then he holds it up as he’s being handcuffed. And so it’s like vitamin C, like an orange juice. And that was the plan. So, you know, essentially when you look at these issues with a long lens, what you see is everything just goes in cycles.

00;06;44;13 – 00;07;08;26

Robert Verkerk

So Flexner report, you know, 1910 was this huge kind of progression of removing all sorts of alternative jobs and setting up a system that actually to this day remains central to the way in which the pharmaceutical industry and the main mainstream medical establishment do health care, which is.

00;07;08;26 – 00;07;23;19

Nathan Crane

Yeah, I mean, we’ve cut and we’ve covered that in depth in previous podcasts and in my documentary series as well. You’re talking about Abraham Flexner, who was basically sent out by I think he was the nephew of either Carnegie or Rockefeller.

00;07;23;24 – 00;07;24;06

Robert Verkerk

Carnegie.

00;07;24;27 – 00;07;50;17

Nathan Crane

Carnegie, Rockefeller were working together during that time, in the early 1900s, basically to go out and get their get control over medicine as we know it. Right. And sent out Abraham Flexner to go out and basically put a report together and say these hospitals and doctors and these institutions, these colleges and so forth at the time they’re teaching medicine.

00;07;50;28 – 00;07;59;08

Nathan Crane

These are the ones that are teaching good medicine, which was basically pharmacology, you know, drugs, etc..

00;07;59;08 – 00;08;04;25

Robert Verkerk

And these only about 30 of them survived. I mean, literally, it was just a massive clean-up operation.

00;08;04;29 – 00;08;29;04

Nathan Crane

Yeah. And they went in and then they said, these ones are basically teaching quackery, which was like natural medicine that had a lot of, you know, safety and efficacy behind it. But they said, you know, natural medicine. Now these guys are bad. You know, anything that has drugs involved, these guys are good. And then they started funding and they got, you know, someone on the board of all of those institutions.

00;08;29;04 – 00;08;50;29

Nathan Crane

And they said, hey, we will continue to fund you and give you more money if you follow the things we want you to do, which is use more pharmacology and implement, you know, the scientific method as we wanted done. And it was really all about money and power and control. I mean, they were invested heavily in the oil industry and they found out, hey, you can make all these pharmaceutical drugs from oil by products.

00;08;50;29 – 00;09;23;14

Nathan Crane

And so it’s another use, another way to basically make billions of dollars over decades. And you control you basically create a medicine monopoly. And it was it was a really devastating thing that happened for human health, in my opinion, because for a really long time, anyone who practiced any kind of natural medicine, which has been around for thousands of years, by the way, I mean, go back to TCM, traditional Chinese medicine, you know, Qigong, acupuncture, all of these kinds of practices have been around for a very, very long time and very well understood.

00;09;23;21 – 00;09;45;29

Nathan Crane

And practice was safety and effectiveness. And they said, Hey, if you do any of this chiropractic, anything, you’re a quack and it’s not real and there’s no science behind it. And it really I think it’s taken up until, you know, the last few decades for a larger percentage of human population to be much more open to natural medicine.

00;09;45;29 – 00;09;51;12

Nathan Crane

I think COVID actually helped open up a lot more people to go, hey, there’s something phony going on here.

00;09;51;13 – 00;10;15;00

Robert Verkerk

Yeah, there’s I mean, there’s many reasons. I mean, yes, as you described, it’s not too different today. The attack on I mean, December 20, 22, the latest guidance from the FDA on homeopathic products says, guys, all that homeopathy you’re using, every bit of it is illegal, which is kind of the warning signal that they’re going to go after it.

00;10;15;06 – 00;10;45;02

Robert Verkerk

The attack on men where we’re really very seriously considering a legal action in conjunction with the Natural Products Association, who we do absolutely see eye to eye on this issue in order to attack the FDA’s stance on that, which is, you know, all about, you know, investigational new drugs, who gets there first, you know, do you do you have evidence that the product was on sale as a dietary supplement before someone decided that they want to investigate the drug?

00;10;45;02 – 00;11;23;13

Robert Verkerk

And essentially the situation at the moment is that the FDA holds a loaded gun. They’ve got a loaded gun given to them. By law that allows them to use it completely, arbitrarily. And obviously we see a big issue arising with CBD. Again and all of the wins, all of the benefits that anyone who’s alive today really has been able to make use of in terms of applying these natural products to their health have come because these fights have been won by the grassroots.

00;11;23;13 – 00;11;56;28

Robert Verkerk

And at an age I think we are the largest grassroots organization working on these issues. And I also head up our international office based in the UK from where I’m talking to you now. And you know, if we take the example of homeopathy, you know, Germany’s the home, Hannah Hand the home to over 200 years ago and homeopathy has just been made illegal to be prescribed by medical doctors who are the key prescribers of homeopathic products.

00;11;56;28 – 00;12;03;05

Robert Verkerk

So they’ve just been disconnected from that modality. So, you know, these challenges happen in waves.

00;12;03;05 – 00;12;04;05

Nathan Crane

Where did this happen?

00;12;05;00 – 00;12;05;21

Robert Verkerk

In Germany.

00;12;05;25 – 00;12;07;28

Nathan Crane

In Germany, they just made it illegal.

00;12;07;28 – 00;12;12;00

Robert Verkerk

It made it illegal for a medical doctor to prescribe a homeopathic product.

00;12;12;00 – 00;12;26;11

Nathan Crane

I mean, is there not a safer form of medicine today than homeopathy? I mean, seriously, like you say, other than placebo, like homeopathy is the most safest thing somebody could do from what?

00;12;26;15 – 00;12;48;22

Robert Verkerk

It doesn’t fit. You know, when you come from a pharmacological mind set, you’ll see them trying to get their heads around it. First of all, that there are also some cowboys out there who are selling things that they call homeopathic products that actually have measurable active ingredient in them. A true homeopathic product, of course, is an extreme dilution.

00;12;48;24 – 00;13;06;19

Robert Verkerk

Yeah. That has a signature of the molecule that was in there left in a substance we call water. That turns out to be one of the most sophisticated substances out there that we’re only just beginning to really understand more about that.

00;13;06;20 – 00;13;42;02

Nathan Crane

I mean, you dilute, diluted it so much that you can’t even find in testing that particular molecule that’s in the homeopathic remedy. But what we understand from a quantum is that it’s the energy, it’s the energy of the molecule. And so we like to go after that and make it illegal. And there are peer reviewed double blind, placebo controlled trials that I have reviewed from PubMed that have shown homeopathic medicines that out win that win against placebos and.

00;13;43;08 – 00;14;12;17

Robert Verkerk

Meta analysis and systematic reviews. Four out of five of them show an absolute more than placebo effect for homeopathy. It’s the only one that doesn’t has got the taking it out study which is completely duped in order to give the wrong results. But we’re seeing and of course, one of the reasons homeopathy is also under attack, it’s one of the big winners during the three years of COVID, the amount of benefit you’ll see out there on social media.

00;14;12;23 – 00;14;37;07

Robert Verkerk

You’ll find it when people are talking to each other. And that’s partially because a combination of things that we’ve been exposed to extreme stress, a virus that it turns out is 99% likely to come out of a lab through gain of function research and MRI vaccinations. If you measure these on bio energy devices, you’ll see they do one thing.

00;14;37;07 – 00;15;02;24

Robert Verkerk

They substantially lower the resonance of the human being that we can now measure through the human bio field. And of course, well, what energy, medicine and homeopathy is just another branch of energy medicine does is help raise that resonance. The body is desperately trying to heal itself all the time. And it needs you need support, it needs nudges.

00;15;03;09 – 00;15;34;26

Robert Verkerk

And what we’re really discovering as we integrate the knowledge of biophysics with biochemistry and biology is that the the field, the energetic field that is part of who we are actually takes precedence over anything. And any of the biochemical reactions. And the direction of those biochemical reactions within our bodies are the result of direction from the field. So you don’t correct the field and you’re only using a biochemical approach.

00;15;35;09 – 00;16;01;16

Robert Verkerk

You will only be dealing with part of the problem. And of course there’s many ways in which we can restore that by field. But, you know, the great thing is that the technologies to be able to measure this and, you know, are really more and more available. That’s not to say that, you know, we’ve done a big analysis of some of them recently, and there are still some technologies out there that are very unproven and somewhat shaky scientifically.

00;16;01;16 – 00;16;09;14

Robert Verkerk

But there are also some that have really been tried and tested and provide incredibly valuable information about the human body.

00;16;10;09 – 00;16;49;01

Nathan Crane

I want to put a pin in the first question about Dietary Supplement Act. So basically, what is the big win from that? From what I understand is the big win is that it opened it broadened our ability to label ingredients. And in certain, you know, natural ingredients and components as supplements so that they couldn’t necessarily be completely taken over by pharmaceutical companies and only turned into drugs, because when they do that, then they like it seems like they’re trying to do with men, you know, nicotinamide, which I take as a supplement, by the way.

00;16;49;12 – 00;17;07;00

Nathan Crane

And there’s a lot of incredible studies behind it as a supplement that it that act that you helped the organizations, helped pass actually helped protect our rights and ability as citizens to have access to natural ingredient based supplements.

00;17;07;00 – 00;17;45;20

Robert Verkerk

Is that it created a carve out that kept them as a southern category of food and also recognized that they had structure function effects. So what they had to develop is a mechanism by which there was a clear difference between the treatment and the prevention of disease, as opposed to a molecular structure that has a specific function. And of course that that whole process wasn’t because DISH in itself has many provisions that have yet to be implemented.

00;17;45;20 – 00;18;14;26

Robert Verkerk

You know, one of them that was implemented more recently that had a fairly big impact on many companies was the cGMP rule to to require you know, good manufacturing practice and all the conditions around that. So some of the less established players had great difficulty getting their head around that. Now, in itself, that’s not so bad. But what we see is that there are steps being taken all the time that are creating a very, very slippery slope.

00;18;15;06 – 00;18;44;06

Robert Verkerk

In a perfect world. And, you know, if you look at the evidence from trials and from clinical data that has come out of COVID, you’ll see that among the most the strongest evidence if you do. First of all, all the results, actually, natural medicines did phenomenally well during the COVID era. You know, vitamin D, vitamin C, QUERCETIN Ivermectin, which comes from the Mac.

00;18;44;06 – 00;18;44;18

Robert Verkerk

Yeah.

00;18;45;01 – 00;18;57;21

Nathan Crane

The probiotics here. The problem is the moment we mention any of this, YouTube says that YouTube says this goes against their policies and they will take the video down so well.

00;18;57;28 – 00;19;32;03

Robert Verkerk

Who ever thought you see when they passed a seh wi? Everyone was thinking, well, you’re going to have two agencies. They’re going to have a problem. One is the FDA, another one is the FTC, which is controlling advertising and claims and everything else. And together they, they, they can do some pretty dastardly thing. But whoever thought that on top of all of that would be private companies, media, organized organizations, fact checkers, controlling what we could and couldn’t say.

00;19;32;03 – 00;20;08;04

Nathan Crane

And that’s the scary part of, you know, our not only our freedom of speech being taken away, but our ability to share evidence based information about natural medicine being restricted from being able to share publicly. That’s the crazy thing to me where I’ve had videos taken down. I we have a strike on our channel right now and everything we said I had a doctor on talking about the virus and about the jab and about the science and about some of these alternative treatments.

00;20;08;04 – 00;20;26;13

Nathan Crane

And they took it down, gave us a strike and we can’t upload. So, you know, we hopefully this video will stay on YouTube, but we also have to build, you know, additional sources to be able to reach and help people like Rumble. If people are watching this video now on a different site, please go to Rumble and find us.

00;20;27;01 – 00;20;41;05

Nathan Crane

Just search Nathan Crane, an astronaut near the Crane at rumble dot com, because they don’t censor this important health information getting out to the public. But it’s a really crazy, scary time we live in that they can do this.

00;20;42;04 – 00;21;42;09

Robert Verkerk

It’s look, there was a there was a meeting in DC between the 24th and 26th of May put on by the Nobel Prize summit. And it was basically the game plan for how they’re going to deal with what they call scientific misinformation and in essence, Nobel as the sort of apparent sort of gold crown, you know, crown jewel in academia that hands that Nobel Prizes is going to be involved in that process alongside and leading universities, the Yale’s, the Harvard’s, etc. and the Russell Group in the UK and these universities whose funding sources are very closely linked to companies that have extreme vested interests in in pharmaceutical vaccine technologies, etc., will make that decision.

00;21;43;04 – 00;22;32;22

Robert Verkerk

Everything else will be deemed scientific misinformation and they will be using artificial intelligence to track all of the scientific misinformation under those criteria down and get rid of it and destroy the reputations of people who are essentially dissenters. Now, that fundamentally means that the principle of scientific discourse that is allowed us to get this far, that is allowed, you know, ideas, hypotheses, beliefs to be tested experimentally, to then be published, to be exposed to peers, to then have it discussed so that only the stuff that stands up to scrutiny ends up kind of surviving the day.

00;22;33;03 – 00;23;19;14

Robert Verkerk

All that goes because Will and of course, that’s why we would tie this process. This process is very, very joined up. It’s not just happening in the US as you know. You know, not Nobel is European. A lot of the universities that are engaging with it are international and it is part of a joined up international strategy that it is delivering the same kind of recipe and it is a recipe of very least authoritarian creep in which the administrative states become ever more powerful, but actually it’s moving probably closer to a totalitarian system.

00;23;20;06 – 00;23;22;18

Nathan Crane

So I’ll go ahead, finish it.

00;23;22;19 – 00;23;51;03

Robert Verkerk

So, you know, it’s deeply troubling in terms of if you value science. I’ve spent my life, I’ve got three science degrees and I’ve been to one of the top universities, both for my master’s, my Ph.D., seven years of post-doc that Imperial College and turned down tenure there to set up the Alliance for Natural Health back in 2002 and and, you know, it’s a it’s a pitiful situation for us to find ourselves in.

00;23;51;14 – 00;24;19;08

Robert Verkerk

And what many of us are doing in the natural health movement is coming together to say, look, enough is enough. We need to create this kind of carve out both in law, which is why I was so active in the political space with Congress, particularly with federal laws in the U.S. We need to take strategic legal actions when the regulators overstep their mark and will do with anyone who’s doing it in an appropriate fashion.

00;24;19;17 – 00;24;42;15

Robert Verkerk

But most importantly, we need to make sure we have the grassroots on board, because when the grassroots stop picking up the paving slabs, that’s when they start taking notice. That’s what happened with the shay. It’s what’s happened with all the revolutions that have maintained the kind of civil liberties that we are just about still able to enjoy today.

00;24;43;20 – 00;25;13;23

Nathan Crane

So that’s really what I was going to ask you a couple of things. One, as a scientist, what has been your conclusion and how have you felt and what have you thought basically from 2020 through now about what we’re being told is the scientific process where we’re being told, you know, by Fauci on TV that basically I am the science.

00;25;13;23 – 00;25;37;18

Nathan Crane

And if you don’t believe in me, you don’t believe in science. You know, all those things that we saw the last few years, one, as a scientist, how is, you know, what’s your perspective on that? Number two, it’s kind of a follow up to that. What is Ange doing or what are you guys planning to do to address that, if anything?

00;25;38;17 – 00;26;14;29

Robert Verkerk

Okay. So first of all, this the stuff we hear about follow the science is it’s a story is little more than a story. It doesn’t really stack up because if you look at any of the literature on the philosophy of science and the development of science over history, and you look at how particular scientists who have tended to be dissenters, you know, Einstein, Tesla, da Vinci, all these people were not born from the cloth of the mainstream.

00;26;15;14 – 00;26;56;25

Robert Verkerk

They were thinking outside the box. They were daring to go outside the comfort zone of the realms of established science, and they were moving into the unknown. So one of the shocking things that have happened to me over the last three years is the intolerance for uncertainty. You know, if you look it was interesting that the Nobel summit meeting decided to use two key examples to show why it needs to take control of what is appropriate scientific information and what is scientific disinformation or misinformation.

00;26;57;03 – 00;27;30;10

Robert Verkerk

And the two issues they chose, one was covered, the other one was climate change. And what you’ve got with his issues is complexity. For a start, that they’re not just complicated, they’re highly complex. In other words, they have a mass of interacting factors. That means that what happens, say, in sub-Saharan Africa is not going to be the same as what happens in California or Tennessee or in Venezuela.

00;27;30;10 – 00;28;15;24

Robert Verkerk

The so, you know, the when we get to this situation of trying to polarize those views into almost a binary perspective where it’s either completely right or it’s completely wrong. So on the climate change front, the debate is, is there anthropogenic is there human mediated impacts on climate change? And they seem to be asking, you know, is the answer yes or no with COVID, the situation is, you know, is there is natural immunity capable of doing anything?

00;28;16;02 – 00;28;57;07

Robert Verkerk

Or do we have to rely on a new technology that’s never been used before on mass population? And they managed by not using the scientific method, by using complex behavioural psychology to persuade the vast majority of people that actually technology held the solution. So we’ve got this this real problem in terms of people trying to look at a complex issue being pushed towards a binary solution, you know, if you like a Teflon puff coated track that is, you know, got lots of traction around it.

00;28;57;07 – 00;29;23;04

Robert Verkerk

It’s about, you know, ensuring that the belonging need, the safety need that is one of these fundamental human needs that human beings have is satisfied. And for Christ’s sakes, don’t step on the other track because it’s dangerous. It’s unsafe. You’re going to be, you know, challenged. You’ll be a horrendous conspiracy theorist. How can you live with yourself? How can you deal with the guilt of not noncompliance?

00;29;24;02 – 00;29;51;29

Robert Verkerk

Now, that isn’t that isn’t science because science has been born out of discourse and dissent. And it’s the stuff that sticks at the end of the day that starts creating this rich tapestry of what we call knowledge. But our knowledge at any one point is limited, you know? So that’s why we’ve got to ask ourselves the question, as, you know, what are we as humans, as humans, culturally?

00;29;52;17 – 00;30;27;10

Robert Verkerk

Are we happy to keep looking for a technological fix? Or, as Charles Eisenstein would say, guys, we we’ve become addicted to technology. You know, we coming back to the discussion we had earlier about Flexner and of course, there were people who saw the issue from both sides back then. But of course, where people started getting a little bit lazy was after the big successes post World War Two with without antibiotics.

00;30;27;19 – 00;30;57;01

Robert Verkerk

So we saw penicillin coming along. We saw the promotion of vaccines against smallpox. These were, you know, the original type of vaccine, very, very different technology to MRI technology used now for COVID and increasingly other diseases. So you had some very clear successes that showed, wow, there is such a and they had DDT in agriculture.

00;30;57;01 – 00;31;31;02

Robert Verkerk

So they had a few hooks that they could sell to the public to say, look, forget about this nature thing. It’s very backward, it’s old fashioned. Let’s go for the new technology. Now, that system, 80 years on, has run out of steam. You know, we saw from the 20 tens the drug pipeline becoming empty, the patent cliff for a lot of the major, you know, lipid lowering drugs, etc., the statins, big sellers.

00;31;31;25 – 00;32;03;25

Robert Verkerk

We saw the horrendous problems with Vioxx and SSRI is creating. And of course, then we move into the opioid crisis. And we now seem to be in this situation. I mean, if you look up the criminal suits that have been laid at the door of the pharmaceutical industry, it’s quite remarkable that so many people can still put their trust in the pharmaceutical industry to find a solution.

00;32;04;08 – 00;32;35;12

Robert Verkerk

And one of the reasons we find ourselves in a bit of a tight spot right now with the animals, the Cbd’s, you know, and even homeopathy is because they want ground that their pipeline is getting empty. And there is no doubt that the new technology for them is in the realm of synthetic biology, and it’s moving increasingly away from the idea of a biochemical molecule that is usually a rip off as something that happened in nature.

00;32;35;17 – 00;33;03;29

Robert Verkerk

75% of all pharmaceuticals originate from nature. Then then tweaked. They’re separated from their sort of natural family of chemistries in which they occur in nature. And the tweaking of them is what creates the huge problem with androgenic effects making properly prescribed medicines now the third leading cause of death in America. So, you know, we need to coming back to your second question about what do we do about it?

00;33;03;29 – 00;33;41;15

Robert Verkerk

The starting point is education. We have to help people to understand that to some degree, the information that they have assumed to be correct information, this idea of putting your trust in these large corporations that have revolving doors with regulators is possibly not the best thing to do if you really value your health. And in fact, if you look at all of the available science and even the World Health Organization has had to agree with this in different at different times, in different places.

00;33;41;24 – 00;34;13;23

Robert Verkerk

Is that the biggest impact on our health are social and environmental determinants of health, you know, so and the illness we get is not a deficiency of a pharmaceutical. It’s because something about the way we’re living in this modern world, the poor adaptation we have is problematic in order to get self-healing properties, you know, running properly so that, you know, the natural medicine world has a huge amount to offer.

00;34;14;04 – 00;34;49;04

Robert Verkerk

Many of the leaders who are developing strategy on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry, as well as the elites that are controlled in this march towards totalitarianism, know this very, very well. They use it themselves for themselves and their own families. So there’s this is a critical time for humanity. We’re also, as Eisenstein and others are saying, we’re living at a time where it’s not just the healthcare system collapsing, it’s social systems, it is economic systems, its financial systems.

00;34;49;11 – 00;35;23;21

Robert Verkerk

And, you know, if you look at C.S. Holick, the ecologists who developed the adaptive cycle, he explains just how everything in nature, but also all humans, all human technologies, will go through a process that follows a figure of eight, where you get an explorer station cycle, a conservation cycle, a release cycle, and then you get this overwintering phase where you rebuild like in winter, you see no leaves on the trees.

00;35;24;05 – 00;36;10;21

Robert Verkerk

It looks like nothing’s happening, but there’s a huge amount of work going on in nature that gets ready for the next spring. And I believe that’s where we are right now, and that’s why we have to be thinking really hard. What direction do we want to go in? We need to hang on to every civil liberty we have because you bet your bottom dollar, literally, they will try and take it away from us in order to control us.

00;36;10;21 – 00;36;13;10

Nathan Crane

Yeah, sorry about that. Can you hear me?

00;36;13;25 – 00;36;15;03

Robert Verkerk

Yeah, totally. Totally.

00;36;15;15 – 00;36;51;03

Nathan Crane

I want to share a couple of things here on based on what you just said. First is anybody who knows systems theory and the S-curve in systems, you know, this just to kind of highlight a little bit of what you said as well. We, you know, off you know, systems go through systems in the universe, systems in business systems and in this case, you know, in health care and technology, etc., they go through these s curves where, you know, first they start and then they build over time and then they stagnate and they either start to, you know, start to head downward and at that point, you have to make changes for it to go

00;36;51;03 – 00;37;34;00

Nathan Crane

up to the next level or it’s going to fall off and basically die or become something completely different. This is a good example of you can see this of what’s called the innovation window after that period of growth in the S-curve. You know, and what I hope happens is that the way we’ve known medicine for the last hundred years, what we call conventional medicine, transitions through this next S-curve cycle and transitions into something much more holistic and really looks at the entire human body as we do in natural medicine.

00;37;34;10 – 00;38;10;26

Nathan Crane

But as medicine as a whole, I really hope that it begins over the next few decades to embody a holistic viewpoint, because we will then I absolutely 100% believe we will see a drastic improvement in human health everywhere on the planet, which solves a lot of issues. But I also want to share something else that you said. I’ve shared this chart before on the podcast, but for those who haven’t seen it, when you talked about the amount of criminal fines for the top pharmaceutical companies, you can find this violation tracker.

00;38;10;26 – 00;39;02;09

Nathan Crane

People can find this on their own. But since 2000, the year 2000, so we’re only talking 23 years, there’s been $113 billion paid out for from these pharmaceutical companies, over 1200 records of payments made for all kinds of things, from Johnson Johnson to Pfizer to Merck, all the top GlaxoSmithKline, etc., for everything from product safety violations to complete scientific fraud to off label unapproved promotion of medical products, drug, medical equipment, safety violation, everything You can think of in terms of paying kickbacks to doctors illegally falsifying data, falsifying science, false claims, you name it.

00;39;02;16 – 00;39;38;11

Nathan Crane

They have been fined and have paid mass of settlements. And you mentioned Vioxx earlier. We know at least 50,000 people were killed by Vioxx. There are some estimates that it’s over 100,000 people. And what happens when this happens, when these companies put out a drug that they there are internal memos that are showing that people inside the company knew that it would cause heart problems and would kill people and they put the drugs out anyway.

00;39;38;25 – 00;40;03;20

Nathan Crane

And what happens is companies get fined a few billion dollars. They get a slap on the wrist, the drug gets pulled off the market and the pharmaceutical company can go on forward. Continuing making more drugs and making more billions of dollars, the government basically finds them and keeps that money for themselves. And these criminal organizations called pharmaceutical companies, we’re supposed to trust them.

00;40;03;20 – 00;40;27;10

Nathan Crane

We’re supposed to believe that everything they do is for our health and for our betterment. And they get to continue making drugs after, you know, falsifying data and paying billions of dollars in fines. It is it is absurd to I mean, when you say that out loud and you really look into this, it is it feels like you’re living in some crazy movie.

00;40;27;10 – 00;40;33;09

Nathan Crane

Like there’s no way this could be allowed in real life. And yet this has been going on for decades.

00;40;34;05 – 00;41;29;04

Robert Verkerk

Look, absolutely. If it was only the farmer industry, it wouldn’t be so bad. The problem is it’s the food industry. It’s the agrochemical industry, and it’s also the telecoms industry. I mean, while everyone was in lockdown, if you follow the number of and I know Elon Musk has had a significant contribution to this, but you follow the number of satellites that are being put into Earth orbit during the time everyone was locked down as they prepare for the next generation of the Internet of Things, the Iot T when many these technologies are issuing frequencies to which life on planet earth is not adapted, you know, a digital frequency has a waveform that’s very irregular, that’s

00;41;29;04 – 00;41;53;03

Robert Verkerk

very different from the smooth sine curve that natural systems emit. We’re all emitting radiation all the time. We receive, obviously a lot of radiation from the sun, but also cosmic radiation. The earth is issuing its own human resonances. So we’re surrounded by energy and each living thing radiates energy. But we’ve had millions of years to adapt to that.

00;41;53;14 – 00;42;01;09

Robert Verkerk

You bring in technology, digital technology, which we are being told. Exactly.

00;42;01;24 – 00;42;25;18

Nathan Crane

I want to show this chart is you’re talking the number of active satellites from 1957 to 2022. You can see how few. You know, by 2017 there were by 2018, there were 2000 satellites over those 60 years. And then look at this as it’s in 2020, 2021, in 2020, you look how it literally triples.

00;42;26;00 – 00;42;53;01

Robert Verkerk

So, you know, there’s some good, good science coming out of Germany showing that some of this spontaneous, very large mortalities that you’re seeing in bird populations, many people will have noticed that it’s bird populations and insect populations that are absolutely central to life on the planet, insects being the most abundant animal in terms of diversity and biomass on the planet.

00;42;53;01 – 00;43;19;17

Robert Verkerk

And they’re just plummeting right now. The the free fall in biodiversity. I mean, one of the reasons that, again, the system is trying to focus people’s mind on climate change is because it doesn’t want people to focus on the real environmental problem that’s going on, which is habitat destruction and biodiversity loss, which is also linked to deforestation and everything else.

00;43;19;22 – 00;43;51;05

Robert Verkerk

That’s where the problem. But they don’t have a tech fix for that, so they don’t really want us to know. And because they are much more interested in a technological future in which you can circumvent what they see as limitations of the human being they are, you’ll see there’s a whole literature, their university departments setting up all over the world on transhumanism or human augmentation, which is really what synthetic biology is a part of.

00;43;51;05 – 00;44;32;08

Nathan Crane

Right. Which is very scary to think of. Now, I have really mixed feelings about Elon Musk because, number one, I really think he’s a genius and I really think he cares about humanity. I feel that when I listen to a lot of his interviews, and I think he’s really brilliant and I think he cares about people. But then you look at something like StarLink, and I know the reason behind StarLink from at least from what he says is, is what, you know, he wants to make Internet accessible to the billions of people who don’t have access to Internet so they can, you know, have many of the same communication connections and luxuries that we have,

00;44;32;13 – 00;44;51;02

Nathan Crane

you know, in, let’s say, first world and Second World countries that have easy Internet access. He wants to make it available to people all over the world in remote areas. And so he put up over 4000 satellites in the last few years. His StarLink is a one of the major contributors to putting up those satellites all over the world.

00;44;51;12 – 00;45;15;02

Nathan Crane

But when I’ve heard him so I think he cares about helping people. I also know he cares about making billions of dollars. He wouldn’t do that if for him it wasn’t about the business. But I also I’ve seen him on Joe Rogan say wi fi and EMFs. He laughed at it. So there’s absolutely nothing to worry about. They don’t cause cancer.

00;45;15;02 – 00;45;45;29

Nathan Crane

They don’t have problems. They do nothing to you, which is 100% false. I have done entire presentations with Lloyd Berle, where we covered immense amounts of data and science that show not only radiation, EMS from cell phones, but from Internet, WiFi routers and so forth, damage the DNA damage, the cellular structure damage can lead to chronic inflammation and can lead to cellular disruption, can lead to cancer proliferation.

00;45;46;08 – 00;46;03;18

Nathan Crane

There is enough evidence today scientific scientifically verified evidence, as well as many anecdotal and case studies and people who, you know, you see a lot of gliomas, for example, on the same side of the brain where people hold their phone in breast cancers.

00;46;03;18 – 00;46;05;12

Robert Verkerk

And women for women who put that.

00;46;05;19 – 00;46;12;13

Nathan Crane

Put the phone right in the bra and keep it there every day. So, I mean, keep the phone, you know, I always keep the phone on the table away from.

00;46;12;14 – 00;46;41;09

Robert Verkerk

We were we worked closely with Molly Johansson and some of the guys who were right in the forefront of the most rigorous research. They had huge grants from Ericsson and other people as they started determining that the non thermal effects of EMFs were so damaging, they had all their pulled. And you just put your finger on what I think is Elon Musk’s very weak point.

00;46;41;21 – 00;47;07;07

Robert Verkerk

You know, he if it interferes with business, is not enough of a concern for him to be truthful about an issue. I mean, for example, he knew full well that he was raping sub-Saharan Africa to get his cobalt and his lithium and everything else. Creating a chart, a children’s slave trade that was at least as bad as the black diamond trade during the diamond era in Southern Africa.

00;47;07;21 – 00;47;34;04

Robert Verkerk

But he was mute on it and he was saying, look, these Tesla vehicles, you know, with all their batteries in them, are going to save the world. Knowing full well where he’s getting the resources from we’re now going to be. I mean, you’ll see that that that technological fix that, you know, all the early adopters jumped in on is not the fix that you know all it did was bypass.

00;47;34;04 – 00;48;05;03

Robert Verkerk

Yeah. If you live in a in a very dense population area, you can improve the air quality in that city if you have a bunch of EVs. But you have absolutely no net impact when most of the energy that’s required that’s come into to first of all, build a vehicle, build the battery, recycle the battery, and then run the battery is coming from fossil fuels or renewables that that are much less renewable than the data.

00;48;05;03 – 00;48;26;08

Robert Verkerk

You know, one of the things we don’t do well around this whole area because people are so lost in the addiction of these technological fixes is life lifecycle analysis. You know, if you’re going to make a decision to buy an EV, you know, a you’ve got to look at the entire lifecycle to see, you know, what’s going on.

00;48;26;29 – 00;48;48;18

Robert Verkerk

And B, you got to check where your data is coming from in the first place. I mean, it’s the same kind of, you know, mischief occurs with consumption of animals. If we’re going to look at it in terms of carbon. So, you know, people are saying, well, you know, eating beef really bad for the environment. They’re belching and farting and doing all this stuff.

00;48;48;29 – 00;49;24;16

Robert Verkerk

Well, it’s really interesting. If you look at a pasture raised animal system, you know, we’ve looked at data very closely in the UK at the Aberdeen Angus Stock in Scotland and the Welsh LAMB stock in Wales. When you measure carbon that is both being sequestered were released by the animals and sequestered both into the pasture as well as into the soil, particularly into the rhizosphere, the microbiome in cars.

00;49;24;20 – 00;49;36;04

Robert Verkerk

And she already can be carbon neutral, therefore telling everyone that, you know, these animals are bad for the environment is another lie.

00;49;36;06 – 00;49;37;04

Nathan Crane

No, it depends.

00;49;37;04 – 00;49;55;28

Robert Verkerk

On the context. You put them into a factory farming system. It’s a very different. So they take the data from the factory farming system and say this applies everywhere. But again, what are we dealing with? This issue of nuances and of complexity? Everyone seems to want a simple solution, so help just become big and you’ll save the world.

00;49;56;03 – 00;49;57;13

Robert Verkerk

It’s nice and easy to live with.

00;49;57;22 – 00;50;19;15

Nathan Crane

Right? And we I mean, anybody who’s ever spent time out in nature or done any research into true environmentalism, you know, you have environmental extremists who think you’ve got to get rid of all the animals. And humans are bad for the planet. Which humans? Yes, we we are destroying the planet. But it doesn’t mean we are bad for the planet.

00;50;19;15 – 00;50;43;07

Nathan Crane

We need to get rid of humans. And also because animals can destroy the planet based on the context you just gave doesn’t mean that they are bad for the planet. In fact, you know, Yellowstone. I grew up Montana, Bozeman, Montana, and spent a lot of time outside as a kid. And even though I’ve been, you know, whole food plant based, you know, vegan for over a decade, I grew up on you know, I grew up hunting and fishing and meat and potatoes and all of that.

00;50;43;19 – 00;51;08;06

Nathan Crane

And I saw first hand the importance of animals on the land. My and had a ranch. And, you know, we did branding on cows. And, you know, they raised these cows in, you know, throughout, you know, hundreds and hundreds of acres of a field. And it’s the animals on the earth in the right proportions that helped keep the Earth sustainable and regenerative.

00;51;08;06 – 00;51;33;27

Nathan Crane

Look at Yellowstone. What happened when they took all the wolves out? They took they took the predators out. They took the carnivores out. And all of a sudden, the park started getting destroyed because the herbivores grew in too much mass population. You can’t have that extreme out of balance. You can’t take out that important aspect of nature, the carnivores, to keep the herbivores moving throughout the land.

00;51;34;03 – 00;51;57;24

Nathan Crane

And that’s what they do. That’s a natural cycle. And so the park wasn’t completely destroyed. Well, they reintroduced the wolves. And guess what? In a pretty short period of time, the forestry got back under control and so we need animals on the land. But like you said, these giant factory, you know, animal agriculture of farms, those are terrible for the animals.

00;51;57;24 – 00;52;18;19

Nathan Crane

They’re terrible for the land. Just drive across Texas, as I’ve done and doing my documentaries on sustainability and go look at these, you know, factory farms where you have thousands of cows in one little tiny area. There’s no grass to be seen anywhere. You’re just driving by. It’s just all black because the dirt is just all black. There’s not an ounce of grass anywhere.

00;52;18;27 – 00;52;21;14

Nathan Crane

There’s no way that’s healthy for the planet. But you put the time.

00;52;21;15 – 00;52;23;19

Robert Verkerk

On terrible, terrible for humans, the.

00;52;23;24 – 00;52;25;29

Nathan Crane

Terrible for humans to plus their problems that.

00;52;26;09 – 00;52;51;16

Robert Verkerk

Terrible all around. And again, that that’s the strength of education. And people can understand that if they want to eat meat, they want to think carefully about where it comes from and what kind of system it comes from. And they might want to eat a bit less of it. And, you know, this brings us to another closely related issue, which is this idea of having a one size fits all solution.

00;52;51;27 – 00;53;13;00

Robert Verkerk

You know, if you can look at a part of the world that has a lot of marginal land and you ban animals from it, actually the maintenance of that marginal land comes for the reasons that you just described. The animals grazing on, pooping on it, actually putting some organic matter that is partially recycled back into the system, keeping it vital.

00;53;13;21 – 00;53;23;23

Robert Verkerk

You cannot grow arable crops. You know, they want a solution where everyone’s eating whole grains and they’re growing it in monoculture that could be much more destructive to the environment.

00;53;23;29 – 00;53;44;04

Nathan Crane

100%, 100%. And, you know, this is why I’ve studied permaculture, as I’m sure you have studied permaculture for the past ten years. And, you know, permaculture gives us the design blueprint for how to live in harmony with animals and nature and the land and growing food in a regenerative and sustainable way. And it doesn’t mean getting rid of the animals.

00;53;44;04 – 00;54;09;08

Nathan Crane

It means living in harmony with the animals and growing foods in harmony with each other that actually builds soil and creates abundance. This food for us. Jeff Lawton, I’m sure you’ve probably heard of him from Australia or from New Zealand, I believe, who’s, you know, got some great videos out there. I’ve been following him for years. I’ve experimented with permaculture as well in our previous property and it’s really learning how to look.

00;54;09;08 – 00;54;34;27

Nathan Crane

How do we grow food sustainably regenerative without chemicals. That is the way nature intended. And it’s a pretty amazing thing to see. I mean, one tiny example people might relate to is, is the three sisters. This is I spend a lot of time with Native Americans over the years and the three sisters are very common Native American food crop that they’ve grown for hundreds excuse me, if not thousands of years, which is corn, beans and squash.

00;54;34;27 – 00;55;00;06

Nathan Crane

And so the corn is the stock that that grows upwards. The beans are the nitrogen fixers, but nitrogen in the soil and the beans grow up around the stock and the squash lays groundcover with the leaves and grows along the ground and helps keep the water in the soil. And so it’s a tiny example of how you grow companion plants together in harmony with each other to be more productive.

00;55;00;06 – 00;55;26;18

Nathan Crane

And actually, if you do something like that, corn, beans and squash, not only are you fixing nitrogen back into the soil and helping repair the soil, but you are creating more abundance and more food per hectare per acre than just doing a terrible mono crop which is going to destroy the land. And we have these things accessible to us and there are more farms within converting to these regenerative styles in the US anyway, which is pretty amazing.

00;55;26;18 – 00;55;48;01

Nathan Crane

And they’re actually going from making less per yield, per crop on monocultures with GMOs, and then they switch to organic and they switch to regenerative agriculture and they are increasing their price per yield substantially. So we know it’s more financially viable, but we also know it’s more sustainable.

00;55;48;18 – 00;56;25;11

Robert Verkerk

Absolutely. Within five meters of me right now is our garden here at our NIH office. And we have exactly that permaculture system. My lunch was 100% derived from our garden here. You know that these are choices that, you know, in many parts of the world, everyone has what we call a kitchen garden. You got some space. And one of the things that that because my background is in sustainable agriculture that my academic background so it’s trying to maintain this complexity in the system is a critical part of it.

00;56;25;16 – 00;56;57;22

Robert Verkerk

I think the bit that we need to help more people in the so-called industrialized countries understand is the benefit of them seed saving, you know, starting with an organic seed, but then basically setting about 10% of their crop aside to be able to collect seed. And one of the biggest problems we have is that we are tending to cultivate crops that are not epigenetically adapted to the area that we’re growing them in.

00;56;57;22 – 00;57;32;23

Robert Verkerk

Right. And once you’ve got about three cycles of that crop going through that area, through histone modifications, methylation that the critical systems use for epigenetic marking those crops become better suited. So, you know, 25 years ago I was working in eastern and southern Africa, Southeast Asia, Central Asia and different cropping systems from cotton to vegetables. And, you know, we were one of the tasks that we had is to understand why these conventional farming systems were breaking down.

00;57;34;09 – 00;58;04;03

Robert Verkerk

And sometimes they’d be using so-called resistant varieties. So you can get a resistant variety of cabbage that is developed for use in Northern Europe, coming from a Danish supplier that has a fantastic natural resistance. So against cabbage aphid or, you know, tell it as I was still a caterpillar that attacks crucifix, you take that crop to Africa and that resistance break down.

00;58;04;03 – 00;58;27;20

Robert Verkerk

So when we started looking at it, we thought, well, what the hell’s going on here? So we were measuring the chemistry in the plant, looking at the glucosinolates and all the secondary metabolites, and lo and behold, they were there. And it’s only when you start looking using electron microscopy that you see what happens in the uplands of Kenya that we were working in.

00;58;29;02 – 00;58;32;14

Nathan Crane

Is that the is it is it the microbes in the soil? I’m going to take a guess.

00;58;32;15 – 00;59;01;27

Robert Verkerk

No, no, it’s not. It’s the ultraviolet light at high altitude in the tropics. It creates because it’s the waxy cuticle that actually provides the primary resistance mechanism for many of these so-called resistant crucifix. So and that completely breaks down. Now, as far as the agricultural suppliers were concerned, they said, no worries, we’ll sell you the seed from Denmark.

00;59;01;27 – 00;59;07;04

Robert Verkerk

I’m going to send you some pesticides. No problem. They make a practical money out of it.

00;59;08;09 – 00;59;12;07

Nathan Crane

But then the plants basically fall apart after a few years.

00;59;13;16 – 00;59;16;10

Robert Verkerk

You know, you’ve got a system that’s chemically dependent.

00;59;16;20 – 00;59;45;10

Nathan Crane

Exactly. I want to go back to you know, we were talking about StarLink and Elon Musk. I know they’ve put up close to 5000 satellites, something like that, in the last couple of years alone from what I’ve read, their plan is to put up something like 42,000 satellites. We know from plenty of scientific studies that EMFs do damage DNA and can lead to, you know, chronic inflammatory conditions like cancer in the body.

00;59;46;01 – 01;00;09;08

Nathan Crane

How do you how do you look at that? And what do we do about, somebody as powerful and wealthy and who’s coming across as, hey, I’m saving the saving the world here by giving everybody Internet access. But at the same time, knowing that we’re going to be, you know, rained upon with these EMFs from thousands of satellites around the world, no matter where we are.

01;00;09;08 – 01;00;29;29

Nathan Crane

I like to go out into nature, turn off my phone, turn off laptops, go with the kids in the family and go camping for a few days at a time to get away from EMFs and get away from technology and just be in nature. And the concern is you won’t even be able to do that. And so how do you look at that and what do you what do you think?

01;00;29;29 – 01;00;48;17

Robert Verkerk

We well, I think we need to, again, look back at history and see, you know, Nathan, you know, that we’ve been in the middle of a campaign on p fast per and polyfluoroalkyl substances. These are organic fluorine compounds and teflon is one example forever.

01;00;48;17 – 01;00;49;03

Nathan Crane

Chemical or.

01;00;49;03 – 01;01;24;22

Robert Verkerk

Ever. Chemicals. Yeah, forever chemicals. And so, I mean, we took kale from four different states, organic and non-organic and found, you know, 90% of the samples were contaminated with significant levels, you know, 100 to 250 parts per trillion, which is way over what the EPA regard. The safe level. And the FDA is telling us, on the other hand, don’t worry, guys, we’ve been studying fast and the food supply through the TDs, the total study since 2019 and interestingly, their data stops in 2021.

01;01;24;26 – 01;01;58;03

Robert Verkerk

They still haven’t published the 2022 data and they say 97% of the samples that they’ve looked at are free of fast. And the only areas that they see a problem is in seafood. And they found one protein powder that was contaminated, a little bit of red meat, but basically plant foods clear. So we just decided to dip our toe in the water to do twice the number of samples that the FDA has looked at.

01;01;58;03 – 01;02;31;19

Robert Verkerk

One crop that’s, you know, the archetypical healthy food kale. As it happens, I did my Ph.D. on the Chris system. So I know quite a lot about them. And I also know that one of the interesting things with Chris office and with kale is that you have relatively high protein content for a non leguminous plant and we know that P fast has a has a as a an affinity to protein.

01;02;32;09 – 01;03;03;15

Robert Verkerk

So we were to be frank, we were completely really shocked. We went through one of the best, you know, most accredited labs, eurofins using FDA testing methods. We used collection bags that were from Eurofins, the to be p fast free because of course you can get it through contact materials as well and we’re now in the process of looking much deeper at what appears to be a major issue.

01;03;03;15 – 01;03;40;21

Robert Verkerk

Now, there was a few months back, there was a in May, there was a big study published going back to historic data acquired through Freedom of Information requests that shows that the chemical industry, the likes of DuPont and three, have known exactly how serious in terms of birth defects, cancers, you know, fertility issues, the whole works because actually the range of health impacts of p fast chemicals of which there are over 12,000 which are now completely ubiquitous, they’re omnipresent.

01;03;41;00 – 01;04;04;21

Robert Verkerk

Look at the CDC data. You’ll see that now they’re saying p fast represent 100% people. So we’ve got exactly the same problem with these chemicals. That’s one group of compounds and they’re playing, you know, a Whac-A-Mole game with it, saying, oh, look, we’ll pull PFOA, we’ll pull a couple of them. So and of course, they substitute for another.

01;04;04;21 – 01;04;08;27

Robert Verkerk

We saw that happening with BPA EPA and bisphenol so.

01;04;08;29 – 01;04;26;22

Nathan Crane

And yeah and you buy plastic that says BPA free and you’re like, oh, great, this is healthy plastic. And no, it’s not the plastic. Exactly. Literally hundreds and hundreds of other chemicals in it. Some of them known endocrine disruptors, known hormone disruptors, known to be likely or potentially carcinogenic cancer causing.

01;04;26;22 – 01;04;55;09

Robert Verkerk

So we need to see a total ban. Well, one thing that all p fas com has, they have different chain length, but they have this this carbon fluorine bond that’s about the strongest bond known in chemistry. And so, you know, if you’ve got a shorter chain, yes, it breaks down more quickly, slightly less persistent environment. But we have a mass problem with p fast, you know, Biden-Harris administration, a jumping on it.

01;04;55;09 – 01;05;24;27

Robert Verkerk

But they’re trying to give the impression that, look, we are just looking at aquifer contamination around DuPont and three manufacturing plants. U.S. Geological Society has just come out with a study that says 45% of all the tap water in the USA is contaminated with p fast. So that kind of gives us an indication of why the CDC data is saying that every American is now contaminated with p fast.

01;05;24;28 – 01;06;04;14

Robert Verkerk

Now, if we combine that chemical that’s just one group of chemicals we’re actually insulted by were exposed to maybe 20,000 different industrial chemicals every day. We combine that with the new to nature EMF load that we’re going to be getting as they start to beam this down. Now, you asked how is this all going to change? You know, when is Elon Musk going to wake up to the fact that telecommunications could result in very significant problems in terms of creating imbalances, not just for humans, but all the other organisms that benefit from them.

01;06;04;14 – 01;06;37;05

Robert Verkerk

So, you know, one of the reasons that we often will look to birds and insects is because those kind of organisms are very dependent on using geomagnetic fields for orientation, for being able to locate and orientate and journey and reproduce and everything else. So and it may be that when we see this free fall in birds that populations EMFs have something to do with it.

01;06;37;05 – 01;07;04;23

Robert Verkerk

But we also know that, you know, neonicotinoid pesticides have something to do with it. So wherever we look, it’s always multifactorial. You can’t pin any one thing down. And what we need is kind of, you know, our view is that we need to have a nature driven approach to it where we actually, you know, think carefully. Nature’s always several steps ahead of humans.

01;07;04;23 – 01;07;34;13

Robert Verkerk

One of the reasons that the doomsday predictions have often failed is because the planet this what James Lovelock called Gaia, you know, is an all is an organism unto itself. And one of the most active parts of that organism is actually the microbial world of which we’re only just starting to understand. And that microbial world doesn’t just exist in the soil, in our bodies, the place where most of it exists is in the oceans.

01;07;34;27 – 01;08;04;13

Robert Verkerk

And, you know, it’s also the place where most viruses live in the oceans and all all the unseen elements. Yes, people know about the destruction of the rainforest, but they know less about the impacts of the acidification of the oceans, the you know, the changes to the phytoplankton within the ocean, within the oceans that are creating a knock on effect on the entire stability of the planet.

01;08;04;21 – 01;08;31;27

Robert Verkerk

But if you add that to what’s happening in soils and the fact that, you know, monoculture, arable agriculture, which is put forward as a central part of the planetary health diet that came forward in the, you know, eat Lancet study requires much, much more arable land, which is going to also be treated with glyphosate. That’s also going to wipe out the whole microbial environment.

01;08;32;09 – 01;08;50;23

Robert Verkerk

And, you know, that’s the difficulty. If you don’t move to a poly culture system that is epigenetically adapted to specific localities and regions, we need diversity, not simplicity.

01;08;50;23 – 01;09;00;27

Nathan Crane

Yeah. And we need people like Elon Musk to wake up, just like you said and others who are well, maybe they know what they’re doing and they don’t care. I mean, who knows?

01;09;00;27 – 01;09;30;06

Robert Verkerk

But I think they I think they do with with Evie. I think they they but, you know, they don’t change until the consensus is so great that they say, you know, the whole conspiracy theory agenda that’s really in magnitude over the last three years is a very useful tool because it allows you to shoehorn descent into this realm of conspiracy theories.

01;09;30;11 – 01;09;46;07

Robert Verkerk

You can ignore it. And it’s only when that sort of jumps out of that, you know, harbor that it moves into mainstream accepted generally accepted knowledge that they will take actions that gives them a few years to make hay while the sun shines.

01;09;46;18 – 01;10;20;12

Nathan Crane

Well, I want to give some people some hope about the exposure to toxins. I actually have a webinar I’m teaching. I’ve spent the last few months researching for this new web class, and then then we have a master class, a detox master class. But I want to give people a few things that that they can. I mean, the work, you know, you’re doing through AMH and through the legal side is incredibly important because that’s how we’re going to make a big change, but also in that it needs people awake in aware of what’s going on in our exposures these toxins I mean another toxin that’s ubiquitous in water systems.

01;10;20;12 – 01;10;45;15

Nathan Crane

And drinking water around the United States is atrazine. One of the top herbicides that is still has been banned in other countries? I think it’s been banned in the UK where it’s still allowed in groundwater. And it’s I mean, the studies they did on atrazine showed that 75 of the male frogs that were exposed to the atrazine became they lost their ability to produce sperm.

01;10;45;15 – 01;11;10;15

Nathan Crane

They basically chemically castrated. And then one out of ten of those frogs literally was switched from male to female. We know that atrazine is an endocrine disruptor. It disrupts our hormones and who knows exactly everything it’s doing to humans. And it’s in the drinking water along with these pee fads that are in this forever chemicals that are in the drinking water, and they’re making their way into the food and so forth.

01;11;10;15 – 01;11;36;28

Nathan Crane

So the first thing I tell people is, one, we can take charge of a lot of this, get involved at a level, you know, and support on going petitions and things like that to change the laws and to ban these kinds of chemicals. But also, personally, you know, you can filter your water, you can filter your air, you can make sure you’re buying as much local organically grown food as possible.

01;11;36;28 – 01;11;55;09

Nathan Crane

You can filter the water that you’re like, I have a hose out back where I water our garden and I filter that hose. I buy it, you know, a filter and filter it so you’re reducing you’re not going to completely eliminate your exposure to all these toxins, but you can reduce it. I mean, a Berkey has done studies with their charcoal filters.

01;11;55;09 – 01;12;19;28

Nathan Crane

You can reduce 99.9% of atrazine in herbicides and pesticides and pee fast and these kinds of chemicals from the water. Well, I think water is of the our drinking water, shower water, the water we’re brushing your teeth with putting on our hands, etc. is one of the most, you know, ubiquitous things that we put in our body every single day that is exposed to all these kinds of chemicals.

01;12;19;28 – 01;12;22;00

Nathan Crane

So, you know, a simple, good high.

01;12;22;00 – 01;12;24;08

Robert Verkerk

And we are and we are water and.

01;12;24;08 – 01;12;26;14

Nathan Crane

We are water, 70% water. I mean.

01;12;26;18 – 01;12;55;09

Robert Verkerk

And that water carries so much information in terms of history. So it’s if it’s run through a municipal waste treatment plant, you know, seven times in a day, which is what can happen in the city when you turn the tap on. It’s got a lot of information in it. You know, there’s Silicon Valley guys are, you know, are looking less at silicon and more at water because water has the capacity to store way more information.

01;12;55;09 – 01;13;23;14

Robert Verkerk

So one day, I’m pretty sure we will have water based computers. It’s no surprise that we are water based organisms for exactly that reason, because there are no organisms out there that that are not wet and squelchy they’re no dry organisms. We dry abiotic things. We, you know, obviously viruses are dry. They don’t have a cell structure. They don’t have a nucleus.

01;13;23;14 – 01;13;45;11

Robert Verkerk

They have nucleic acid that’s often wrapped in a protein coat. So they, you know, and again, when we our brains, we’re always kind of looking to put things in compartment. Are they living or non-living? Well, in my mind, I put them in a continuum between living and not living. They depend on other organisms for their energy as a host, for their own reproduction.

01;13;45;11 – 01;14;10;26

Robert Verkerk

But they’ve got other qualities about them that are much closer to living organisms. And of course, there are only around 200 viruses that are ever been shown to cause disease, and there are probably multiple million viruses out there, as I said earlier, many of which occur in the oceans that we’re starting to using next gen sequencing understand a bit more about.

01;14;10;26 – 01;14;43;10

Robert Verkerk

But I come from a perspective from evolutionary biology where we see viruses as really largely the good guys who are involved in a system of genetic exchange that is actually critical for evolution. And of course, this is one of the problems when you have a fear based campaign around a gain of function research program that created SARS-CoV-2 is that everyone becomes fearful of viruses.

01;14;43;16 – 01;15;09;27

Robert Verkerk

Everyone wants to wipe them out. And yet, you know, that that kind of thinking also often goes across to any kind of germ or bacteria. Again, these are the saviours for the planet. We really have to understand much more about microbes. Yes, small, but they undergo incredibly complex functions in and around other organisms, keeping the biosphere the planet stable.

01;15;09;27 – 01;15;42;06

Nathan Crane

Well, as I’m sure you know, I mean, we have more bacterial DNA in our bodies than we do human DNA. We require viruses and bacteria to live as human beings. And science is just starting to touch the tip of the iceberg of what these bacteria and viruses are doing in our body to keep this homeostasis. But I wanted to just kind of put a pin in the point of giving people some things they can do, you know, filter your water by as much organic as possible, especially when you’re putting lotions and shampoos and things on your body.

01;15;42;06 – 01;16;06;29

Nathan Crane

There are so many chemicals in those everyday body care products that are completely allowed, even though they are known endocrine disruptors. They can cause all kinds of organ damage. They can lead to cancer in the body. So you’ve got to buy anything you put on your body becomes your body literally at a cellular level. It gets absorbed through the skin into your bloodstream, often bypassing filtration organs.

01;16;07;08 – 01;16;30;18

Nathan Crane

So you putting lotions and deodorants and shampoos and soaps and things like this, make sure they are pure organic with no chemicals added to them. Super, super important to reduce your exposure to these chemicals filled to the air. I already said filter the water and then you can take natural binders in key you to help kind of clean up the gut.

01;16;30;18 – 01;17;12;03

Nathan Crane

You can also, you know, one of the things is improving your immune system function, vitamin C, good thiamin, vitamin D, these kinds of things that are going to help your natural detoxify detoxification pathways, help to stimulate your lymphatic system like exercise sauna is wonderful as well. Sauna is going to help remove heavy metals through your sweat. It’s been tested and studied that, you know, doing sun not only increases lifespan and reduces all-cause mortality by up to 45% in the relative risk reduction in those studies, I think it’s like 18% absolute risk reduction, which is amazing by the way.

01;17;12;20 – 01;17;40;09

Nathan Crane

But it’s been shown to, you know, ki laid out heavy metals through the sweat also binders that’s activated charcoal. There is cilantro, spirulina, there is parsley, things that are going to bind some of these toxins and chemicals and remove them out of the body. But, you know, you’ve got to look into this at a much deeper level. I mean, we have hours and hours of content of how you can detox safely.

01;17;40;09 – 01;18;02;25

Nathan Crane

But I just want to give people hope that you can reduce your exposure significantly. You can live a lifestyle where your body is removing a lot of these chemicals out of you every single day. But at some point we’ve got to stop putting them in completely and stop putting them on the earth and harming ourselves and animals and plants as we know it.

01;18;02;25 – 01;18;12;04

Nathan Crane

So I wanted to ask you about I wanted to mention, do you know Dr. Henry Ely, Yale? Why with Energetic Health Institute?

01;18;12;04 – 01;18;12;27

Robert Verkerk

I don’t know.

01;18;13;16 – 01;18;32;15

Nathan Crane

So he would be someone. I’d be happy to connect you with him. He brilliant, brilliant scientist has is part of an organization, non-profit. They are. And they have support from you know stand for Health Freedom.

01;18;34;04 – 01;18;35;09

Robert Verkerk

I do. Yes, I.

01;18;35;09 – 01;18;59;29

Nathan Crane

Do. Yeah. So they have support from Stand for Health Freedom where they’ve gotten, I think, 100,000 signatures where they have filed a formal grand jury petition petition calling for the investigation into the CDC’s willful misconduct to hyper inflate the COVID 19 data where they have proof and I’ve talked with him in depth, you can find my entire interview with him on Rumble.

01;18;59;29 – 01;19;28;02

Nathan Crane

Dr. Henry, where he says they have proof he thinks they will absolutely win, where they broke the federal laws in multiple cases. But they are getting the, you know, hundreds of thousands of people on board signing the petition and they need more people to sign and then also to donate to help for the lawyers, 100% of donations go towards paying for the legal fees to help.

01;19;28;25 – 01;20;15;13

Nathan Crane

This is one of those things that you mentioned earlier. You know, you the AMH, wants to partner in support with anyone who is helping move forward. The laws that help stop these kinds of things like willful misconduct from our governmental health organizations, from being able to happen again. He has the the evidence to show that they hyper inflated the case count for the intention to get the emergency use authorization to then you know fast track the jab forward against even the evidence that showed that there were solutions already in place.

01;20;15;13 – 01;20;36;24

Nathan Crane

And you know, if this lawsuit goes to the grant, it go to grand jury. If if they win, which he really thinks they will, it could drastically make a dent in these like the CDC its ability as well as HHS his ability to, you know, you know, allow something like this to ever happen again.

01;20;37;14 – 01;20;38;28

Robert Verkerk

So I would.

01;20;38;28 – 01;20;40;13

Nathan Crane

I highly recommend, you know, looking in.

01;20;40;13 – 01;21;07;21

Robert Verkerk

Definitely definitely follow that out. But I’m during the COVID era I’ve been based in in Europe. So we’ve been all over the European data and the and the European groups. But that’s new to me. But definitely we will follow that up. It sounds fascinating. One of the difficulties is that, as you will know, the judicial system isn’t always as fair as it’s cracked up to be.

01;21;08;01 – 01;21;33;27

Robert Verkerk

And when you get involved into in matters of science, debates over science, they’ve got a very oiled system of willing experts that seem you know, as I was talking about the Nobel Prize summit, kind of people associated with that who come out of the Foushee mold, they just keep saying the same thing over and over again until people start believing it.

01;21;33;27 – 01;22;28;28

Robert Verkerk

But look, it legal actions are absolutely essential. There are still some decent people left in the judiciary. My hope is that, you know, during the day in court stand for health freedom will have the right kind of a hearing because it’s I mean it’s clearly a as is so much of what we hear about through the mainstream media and that is the difficulty that the corporatocracy has now, you know, got itself neatly glued together with the globalization agenda that have a particular view of the world where things are seen through a lens of, you know, top down control when it comes to pandemics, top down control when it comes to delivery of substances

01;22;28;28 – 01;23;09;02

Robert Verkerk

that are used for health care purposes, which is why they need to sideline dietary supplements. And and also a particular view of the environmental crisis that we are no doubt in the midst of. But they want to show us a part of it. You know, that is really not the part that we should all be focusing on. And that’s why from a sort of empowerment point of view, to be able to not comply where there are clear, fragrant, flagrant, you know, removal of fundamental civil liberties that are, you know, fathers, mothers and fathers and mothers have fought for.

01;23;09;19 – 01;23;33;20

Robert Verkerk

We need to be able to kind of put a stick firmly in the sand and say, enough is enough, but we also need to create new systems. So what’s fascinating at the moment, you know, we’ve just come out of a weekend of many of the groups who are looking at new economic systems, financial systems, agricultural systems, educational systems and health care systems.

01;23;33;20 – 01;24;07;12

Robert Verkerk

We were the leaders on the health side are coming together to say, you know, with the collapse of these multiple systems, we have to start building the new because the picture that the you know, the guys in charge, as it were, have for us is one that is deviates dramatically from a path that’s kind of in tune with the essence of what it is to be human, as well as having that connection with nature that we are a part of.

01;24;08;08 – 01;24;32;29

Nathan Crane

I love that building the new I’ve been, you know, talking about that and experimenting with it and spreading information about it since 2011, 2012, when I recognize that’s exactly what we need to do, is build the new societies, the new communities, the new, you know, way of growing food, the create the systems in the cultures in place.

01;24;32;29 – 01;24;46;00

Nathan Crane

So when all these things collapse, we already have all of this functioning. And there are some good small examples of it happening in various parts of the world, but nothing at large that any kind of large scale yet.

01;24;46;00 – 01;25;20;17

Robert Verkerk

But you see we don’t necessarily this this is the key if there’s one word that ties all the solutions together in my view is descend generalization. So, you know, everyone seems to be looking for a, you know, large scale solution that can apply to everyone, but that’s more of a one size fits all. Actually, many of the solutions are about creating connection between the different nodes that are appropriate for different regions, different cultures, different ethnicities, different age groups.

01;25;20;26 – 01;25;46;03

Robert Verkerk

You know, we need diversity in the system. We don’t need to be shoehorned into the same system. And so small solutions, it’s again, the same applies to some of the groups who are working on environmental issues. Some of the best work has been done by specific groups that are going out to parts of India saving, you know, tigers in one area.

01;25;46;12 – 01;26;12;00

Robert Verkerk

I mean, compared with what the World Wildlife Fund is doing, these smaller groups, if you look at them all together, are doing much more than WWF that is absorbing massive amounts of money in the bureaucracy, the administration, and then supporting SDGs and all the rest of it. So, you know, decentralization, really, really key local solutions, really key empowerment and protecting.

01;26;12;00 – 01;26;59;12

Robert Verkerk

Defending civil liberties, absolutely crucial. And being able to have communication systems that work. I mean, that’s one of the reasons that social media systems, which is, if you like, the communication system for the people on are being so heavily controlled. And again, Elon Musk, you know, with access X what used to be Twitter and there are many people still being cancelled who are, you know, scientists and doctors providing, perfectly reasonable system, whether it’s algorithms that are, you know, legacy algorithms from the pre musk era that are still having their effect, but, you know, with we’re seeing any growth we get, it’s almost to the exact number.

01;27;00;03 – 01;27;26;07

Robert Verkerk

They just delete people from your account and there are lots of people we know it’s shadow banning. There’s a huge amount of shadow banning that’s going on and that’s why moving back to live events like the camper event, we’ve had so important so that we can, you know, really get our ideas together and start working in connected groups, decentralized groups, dealing with all of these new systems.

01;27;26;12 – 01;27;54;26

Robert Verkerk

So it’s, it’s a really exciting time to be around. I personally think we’re all around here because of this. This is this was our calling. I mean, I’m finding myself using all 45 years of my professional background because it’s so multi-disciplinary, it’s so interconnected, it’s so necessary that we see things from a kind of bird’s eye view as, holistic systems, as we started talking about at the beginning.

01;27;55;07 – 01;28;04;29

Robert Verkerk

And, and we need to get out of our silos, you know, and we need to act on thinking there’s a technological round the corner. Right. I have so many of the answers.

01;28;05;10 – 01;28;27;12

Nathan Crane

Exactly. And speaking of, you know, live events, you know, I’m on the I volunteer on the board of directors for Belgian Ski Foundation. We do scientific research into natural solutions for cancer and chronic disease. And we have a conference coming up at the Integrative Cancer Conference in October in Jacksonville, Florida, with people flying in from all over the world to attend in person.

01;28;27;12 – 01;28;28;13

Robert Verkerk

As you said, I’m one of them.

01;28;28;24 – 01;29;01;21

Nathan Crane

And you’ll be there. And, you know, this is important. We get together in person. There’s also livestream tickets available for people they can learn about the conference, integrative cancer conference dot com. But you know, the one of the reasons that your organization one of the reasons you’re coming and we’re excited for you to come and be a part of it is you know the work that the and H venues through the NIH has done over the years is so instrumental in helping move this important, important work forward into the future.

01;29;01;21 – 01;29;13;22

Nathan Crane

So, you know, your organization and yourself are being honoured with a non-profit excellence award at the conference, which is going to be pretty awesome experience.

01;29;14;12 – 01;29;32;00

Robert Verkerk

There’s Entertainment Tonight and we’re hugely grateful. And Belgian skills work. It was ground breaking. The work the foundation is still doing is is amazing. It’s a very difficult environment to operate in. And, you know, it’s fantastic to have someone like you associated with it as well.

01;29;32;12 – 01;29;56;22

Nathan Crane

Yeah. Thank you. And it’s important work that we like you said, it’s different groups approaching it from different angles all over the place. That’s exactly what it is, a decentralization word approaching it and have been for the past decade from the cancer viewpoint. But that all ties into sustainability and to the environment and to our food and to, you know, a holistic systems and systems of, you know, our entire civilization.

01;29;56;22 – 01;30;24;04

Nathan Crane

But at the same time, if we can produce and publish science that shows, hey, nature plants from nature actually are helping our bodies into homeostasis by fighting off cancer cells. Look, we just have one more piece of evidence to keep educating and sharing with people these natural solutions for our health with zero or low or no, you know, toxic effect on healthy cells.

01;30;24;04 – 01;30;47;23

Nathan Crane

So anyway, integrative cancer conference dot com for people interested. Check it out. Come meet Robert and myself in person. It was as well as a couple of dozen other incredible integrative, holistic, functional natural physicians and doctors in cancer. Conquer is going to be presentations and workshops and music and vendors. It’s going to be amazing. So those of you who are watching, please come join us.

01;30;48;21 – 01;31;23;01

Nathan Crane

But I want to ask you, I mean, we’ve kind of danced around it just naturally. And I’m really interested in your perspective about climate change as a scientist who clearly cares about the environment and myself, I deeply, deeply care about the environment. My perspective on it has shifted over the last few years, whereas before I was much more one way, and now I’m seeing it from a larger holistic.

01;31;23;01 – 01;31;26;29

Nathan Crane

What is your perspective on climate change?

01;31;28;01 – 01;32;13;15

Robert Verkerk

And again, the story that we’re being sold I don’t think fits with all of the information that we’re given and. And a big part of it is because the story that we’re sold revolves specifically around carbon and carbon dioxide and. Doesn’t then consider the way in which carbon and carbon dioxide, when you look at really long timescales, has been changing dramatically and how what kind of buffer the planet is capable of dealing with, particularly through the plant world and the microbial world.

01;32;13;29 – 01;32;44;13

Robert Verkerk

And I think it is it’s like a very limited view of a much bigger what I would like to term an environmental crisis. So I would say we are going through an environmental crisis and we’ve actually created a big infographic on it too, and we’ve written a piece on it that that tries to put climate so-called climate change into context.

01;32;44;13 – 01;33;12;00

Robert Verkerk

I think it’s something of a misnomer as well, because climate is always changing. And I think it’s a it’s a technique to take our minds off real problems that are occurring around habitat destruction, chemical pollution. I mean, if you like, you could argue pollution from vehicles and from industry or from agriculture is just another form of chemical pollution.

01;33;12;12 – 01;33;38;24

Robert Verkerk

We’re releasing excessive amounts of certain gases that can destabilize the planet. We’re also got to look at that in the context of all the chemicals that we tend to ignore. I mean, the chemicals are such a huge part of the overall problem, as is the problems that are going on in the oceans. So environmental crisis. Yes. Of data.

01;33;40;01 – 01;34;00;08

Robert Verkerk

The story we’re told is really, you know, typically any of these issues, as you look at them develop over time, they will give the public a problem, define it in a particular way and offer a solution that’s very close to it. Now.

01;34;01;14 – 01;34;26;22

Nathan Crane

The solution to that and then the question always is who benefits the most from that solution? And if you follow the money, when you say the benefits the most, you will always find. Yeah, the money funnels to a few key people and a few key organizations from that particular solution, from that so-called myopic problem, which is almost always much more than just that little thing that they’re focusing on.

01;34;26;22 – 01;34;27;07

Nathan Crane

Exactly.

01;34;27;07 – 01;35;12;17

Robert Verkerk

So they’re able there is a strong link between the climate change agenda and the development of, say, you know, central bank digital currencies and carbon bonds. And this in the ESG agenda, um, environmental social governance agenda, that’s, that’s become part of the, the kind of woke kind of culture that, as you know, is fortunately some of the lead players are starting to say realize that it is just part of an agenda that’s pushing people on this Teflon stream, that that really has very little to do with solving the planet’s real problems.

01;35;12;25 – 01;35;39;10

Robert Verkerk

It’s like in health care. We, you know, we were going to have a health care system that really cared about people. It would deal with the, you know, social, environmental determinants of health. It would deal with the fact that most people are, you know, eating wrong diets because the, you know, food system has manipulated the USDA in order to create a kind of food pyramid.

01;35;39;10 – 01;36;03;27

Robert Verkerk

And my plate system that benefits, you know, ultra processed, processed food industry. And, you know, so coming back to the solutions, I loved all of your solutions. Just a couple more that we can add to that. Getting colour into your diet, getting all the major phytonutrient groups into your diet every single day is a is a huge part of it.

01;36;04;07 – 01;36;29;15

Robert Verkerk

Getting. I mean, you see the quality of the food that people are eating. It’s the same thing day in, day out, often yellow in colour. It’s missing the antioxidants, the brand facade. And that means that there are so crucial that mop up, you know, radical oxygen species in the body. But we’ve also got a crisis around mental health.

01;36;29;15 – 01;37;08;24

Robert Verkerk

You know, this term mental health is used all the time, particularly around young people that are being made to become addicted to digital technology. So we need to kind of reframe how we’re going to be handling technology and the addiction to technology for young people and work with human emotions. Because we know from, you know, both psychology, neuro linguistic programing as well as now biophysics, that every single thought we have, you know, carries energy with it that has impacts on our body.

01;37;09;12 – 01;37;39;04

Robert Verkerk

So the fact that people are living in a a world dogged by fear, by anger, by disgust, these are all primary emotions, emotions that have been built, human evolution, because they affect directly our survival and they’re being manipulated by the players every day of the week. They’re being disseminated through the media and they affect our bodies because of the way we’re thinking.

01;37;39;14 – 01;38;38;00

Robert Verkerk

So as soon we say, look, let those guys, you know, the chances of us being able to directly fight the system and, you know, if we look, for example, the W.H.O. treaty that’s going through at the moment with is going to be signed up by a majority probably in May 2024, next year, they’re playing a game to basically hand sovereign control in the event of a pandemic that can be declared at any time by someone like Tedros when he decides, you know, monkeypox becomes a pandemic of concern and they will then determine our future in terms of what we should or shouldn’t do in Geneva, not not in, you know, Michigan or Pennsylvania or California

01;38;38;00 – 01;39;06;05

Robert Verkerk

or the United Kingdom. That’s assuming the countries sign up to it. But they’re going for lots of small countries that that realize that if they play the game, they’re going to get the IMF loans, they’re going to get their trade deals. So these countries are just signing up. So is that stoppable? My view and it sounds negative is probably it isn’t.

01;39;06;29 – 01;39;39;02

Robert Verkerk

But what is stoppable is the ability for them to be able to control the decisions that we make on a day to day basis. That is why the first and Second Amendments exist in the in the Constitution. We our freedom of speech. And we need to be able to have tools to be able to respond to a system that forces us to violate those fundamental inalienable rights that we have that cannot be taken from us.

01;39;39;09 – 01;40;10;12

Robert Verkerk

And one of our fundamental rights is our connection not just with each other, but also with nature. And, you know, there are many of us who will who will never give up that fight that that that is. And whether it’s going to become a fight, my hope is that it’s not something we have to fight for. It’s something that becomes a natural progression that enough people understand, which is why at this stage of the game, education is such a crucial factor.

01;40;10;12 – 01;40;37;27

Robert Verkerk

That’s why we’re joining with James. Dr. James Lyons. While in the States, through the IPAC, the Institute for Pure and Applied Knowledge, through our NIH Health Creation Faculty, we working on all sorts of retraining. You know, you learn stuff that you find is incorrect. For example, the view on climate change or the view on that. All we need is a vaccine to get ourselves through COVID.

01;40;38;27 – 01;41;10;08

Robert Verkerk

We then have to unlearn that, but we need to relearn that and what James is releasing through ipac hyphen edu dot org is really reasonably price courses that allow you to learn about the immune system, learn biology and chemistry in the way that it should be taught, not the way that we get. You know, if you look at what happens in schools these days, they’re all being turned into technologists, not biologists or ecologists.

01;41;10;08 – 01;41;41;03

Robert Verkerk

They have no real idea of how the natural world works. They want to take that information away from us so we can just all engage in technological solutions. So we have to start teaching ourselves. And we are already seeing the spawning of new institutes like Ipac that are going to reteach some of these fundamental sciences that we need to understand to a degree, to be able to understand the value of the kind of solutions you and I have been talking about for the last hour and a half.

01;41;41;12 – 01;41;55;22

Nathan Crane

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Improving our education systems is essential. And as we kind of come to a close here, I want to share briefly, you know, how my thoughts have shifted on climate change over the years.

01;41;55;28 – 01;41;56;12

Robert Verkerk

A place.

01;41;56;25 – 01;42;27;08

Nathan Crane

Where I think I believed everything that was put out initially with some reservation, because any time there is a, you know, a governmental organization telling us this is the way it is, I have certainly some hesitation, a reservation to believe everything they say. But in terms of I believed a lot of what was put out early on when I became aware of it was, yes, you know, we’re damaging the planet.

01;42;27;08 – 01;43;14;24

Nathan Crane

Yes, it’s contributing to the climate changing. Is it actually contributing to global warming or not? You know, I saw early on scientists disagreeing with that. So I said, okay, there’s some disagreement there. Even though the mainstream media and the government organizations are saying, hey, 99% of scientists agree on this. Again, I didn’t believe that number was true either, but either way, over the years, what I have come to to believe is that, number one, our through the massive chemical production and through, you know, the vehicles and the batteries and the toxic things that we produce, you know, whether it’s technologies and so forth, we are absolutely destroying the planet.

01;43;14;25 – 01;43;32;14

Nathan Crane

There’s been no doubt about that in my mind whatsoever. We are polluting the waters, we are killing the fish, we are killing the coral reefs. We are, you know, putting these toxins and forever chemicals into the plants and into the water streams and into drinking water. And so on and so forth. There’s been no doubt about that in my mind since day one.

01;43;32;14 – 01;43;54;17

Nathan Crane

So it’s like, yes, we are destroying the planet. Are we actually contributing to what they call climate change, meaning, you know, larger storms are going to kill and destroy more people. And the melting of the polar ice caps and the waters raising it all the end of the world, old, you know, hypotheses. It has been sold to us as fact.

01;43;54;17 – 01;44;28;04

Nathan Crane

If you don’t change these things and go to all electric vehicles by, you know, an electric energy by 2030, you know, humanity is doomed. All of those kinds of statistics and doom and gloom things that have been told to us, a lot of that I’ve been very, very skeptical since the beginning. I’m even significantly more skeptical now. But with that said, here’s the challenge in my mind just because even if you believe, let’s say somebody is watching and they 100% believe we have no impact on climate change whatsoever, let’s say that’s your belief, right?

01;44;28;04 – 01;44;45;16

Nathan Crane

Human beings and, the CO2 and all of that. And there are scientists who are saying this and believe this as well, that we can’t do produce enough CO2 to actually make a change in climate. Climate’s always going to change. The temperatures go up and down and go up and down over centuries and centuries. You can check out the graphs and find that that’s true.

01;44;45;27 – 01;45;12;21

Nathan Crane

But let’s say you believe that humans cannot change the climate. To me, that doesn’t matter as much as the fact that if we keep going the way we’re going, we are going to continue destroying ourselves, the natural environment and the animals and our foods. With all of the chemicals and toxins and pollutants and technology that we’re creating, you know, these batteries have to go somewhere.

01;45;12;28 – 01;45;37;01

Nathan Crane

You know, right now they’re being piled up at Tesla saying, hey, they’re going to be recycled. But how many of them actually are getting recycled from all the EVs and how many are ending up in landfills and poisoning, you know, the waterways and the food systems and so forth? You know, we don’t have those exact yet. How much of the, you know, pollution is going to continue causing, you know, irreparable damage to our ecosystems?

01;45;37;24 – 01;45;58;18

Nathan Crane

That’s the thing that I look at and say, hey, we are causing problems. Let’s recognize that and then let’s figure out what can we do about it. And these are the solutions we’ve been talking about on this podcast. You’ve talking about you’ve spent, you know, many years focusing on this. And I think the big takeaway for me is whether climate change is actually happening or not.

01;45;58;18 – 01;46;25;05

Nathan Crane

There is something we can do about stopping the destruction and the pollution to our own selves and our children and our families and our communities. And that is becoming more in harmony with nature, growing more of our own food, cleaning up our water systems, choosing organic, supporting local organic farmers as much as possible, stop buying things that are filled with chemicals and preservatives and junk in them.

01;46;25;13 – 01;46;48;11

Nathan Crane

Stop buying these fake meats that are being produced and these GMO crops and these, you know, things that are like they’re saying, Yeah, eat fake meat that’s grown in a laboratory because it’s better for the environment because it’s going to destroy your body, you know, it’s like these are, you know, these are things that are not natural for our human.

01;46;48;11 – 01;47;01;23

Nathan Crane

And so getting ourselves closer and closer to nature, the more we can do, spending more time outside in nature, getting our kids to spend more time outside in nature. I think these are real solutions individual people can do every single day.

01;47;02;09 – 01;47;44;27

Robert Verkerk

Nathan It turns out that we’re 100% aligned with our views on the environment. It’s really interesting because in America what I also find is that a lot of people’s views on environmental issues are affected by the political divide. You know, if you if you vote Republican or Democrat, you tend to have views that reflect that political view. And I find that strange in itself, because your political view should be independent of what’s happening outdoors and in the environment and everything else, but but I think what it what it cements in our mind is that there is huge uncertainty about what’s really going on.

01;47;44;27 – 01;48;16;26

Robert Verkerk

There. Some of it is beyond human comprehension, particularly the ability for Gaia, for the planet to be able to survive stressors. There are also a bunch of factors going on that very few people are talking about, such as, for example, the shift in the magnetic pole that the magnetic pole is moving very, very rapidly away from the true magnetic north is moving well away from the magnetic north that we like think of in our maps.

01;48;17;02 – 01;48;44;00

Robert Verkerk

It’s moving it around six miles a year, which is pretty quickly. And the true magnetic north is sitting somewhere in the middle of Siberia at the moment. And there is a possibility that we’re moving towards a polar flip now that has very significant impacts on any animal that is using the Earth’s magnetic fields to assist with orientation or mate finding or anything else.

01;48;45;12 – 01;49;06;20

Robert Verkerk

But it also is going to have impact on the melting of the ice cap. So these kind of transitions, they happen. But it seems that not only are many of the human systems transitioning at the moment, there is a major transition going on with the Earth’s magnetism as well, which has got to be factored into the overall picture.

01;49;06;20 – 01;49;35;27

Robert Verkerk

So complexity is what it’s about. We have to become more tolerant of an uncertain environment. We have to be not so quick to immediately shut people down who have a different set of views. We’ve got to become better active listeners so that we can say, Look, there are a bunch of things that we might not agree on right now, and that’s because there’s a lot of uncertain data out there, but there’s probably some things that we do agree on.

01;49;35;27 – 01;50;05;08

Robert Verkerk

And the very things that you’ve been listing, listing in terms of having more time in nature, educating our kids to be kind to each other, to to understand more about how the world works, to be able to eat whole foods don’t come out of a plastic container to understand the provenance of every piece of food that you put in your mouth and to to not buy foods that have ingredients, lists, as long as a laundry list.

01;50;05;08 – 01;50;32;09

Robert Verkerk

If you don’t understand what the hell it is, don’t put it in your mouth, you know, to put pressure on the political system, to exercise your democratic right, to understand that the people in Congress are there because they are doing your job. You know to enact your will and to make the corporations on this planet today answerable for their misdeeds.

01;50;32;10 – 01;50;59;23

Robert Verkerk

I mean, they are it’s an extraordinary situation. As you rightly listed previously, the the pharmaceutical that has been entrusted with human health is the the most criminal industry that the planet has ever seen. And the average person still just rocks up at their, you know, family physician says, what are you going to prescribe me for this pain? I’ve got my left knee, you know.

01;51;00;20 – 01;51;40;25

Robert Verkerk

I mean, it’s entirely crazy if we don’t reframe what’s going on. And that’s why having a sense of sovereignty having a sense of, you know, changing the locus of control, part of the movement that we’ve seen over the last three years through this pandemic was about orchestrating a change in the locus of control in health care. We were all getting super excited about this idea that the you know, the doctor patient relationship is really where, you know, it was all centrally important that the patient was going to be at the heart of everything.

01;51;40;25 – 01;52;01;18

Robert Verkerk

And and now you’ve got doctors looking over their shoulders saying, I’ve got to I’ve got to see what the FDA what the FDA is telling me to do. I’ve got to see what my medical board because if I don’t comply with that, I might not have the food to feed my family now. Right. That’s become health care. Right.

01;52;01;19 – 01;52;01;28

Robert Verkerk

You know.

01;52;01;29 – 01;52;02;11

Nathan Crane

That.

01;52;02;14 – 01;52;10;29

Robert Verkerk

I’m crazy. So we have to reframe, you know, what makes sense and what doesn’t.

01;52;10;29 – 01;52;38;15

Nathan Crane

Well, Robert, it’s been an awesome conversation, really. I’ve definitely enjoyed it. You’re obviously very brilliant and yeah, I’m I mean, you just provide a whole long list of things that people can do as well. So, you know, leaving on a positive note for, people there is a lot of hope, there’s a lot we can do. And we have to be diligent and vigilant and focused and committed.

01;52;38;15 – 01;53;04;25

Nathan Crane

I mean, these things for me, it’s become a lifestyle and it’s not work, you know, it’s like, this is how I live my life and I have for years. And it’s how I will continue to live my life and continue to find ways to improve while still living in this, you know, technological world and having a foot in this world and having a foot, you know, the best I can in the natural world, trying to help people and help my own family at the same time.

01;53;05;03 – 01;53;24;28

Nathan Crane

It’s like you do what you can and that’s it. You do what you can a little bit every day, do what you can, and millions of people doing that, it will make a significant difference. So, Robert, if people want to get in touch with you, support your work, your organization, you know, donate to today and h where’s the best place for them to go?

01;53;25;12 – 01;53;54;19

Robert Verkerk

An h hyphen u.s. dot org. That’s our website. Our international website is NH international dot org. But for us audience and h hyphen usa dot org and there’s loads of information you can get involved. We the most important thing that people can do is sign up to our free newsletter and then you’ll see the information. We are the biggest grassroots organization in this space.

01;53;56;14 – 01;54;22;15

Robert Verkerk

You know, making change around laws and regulations and working with Congress. We got a lot of support there with many of the issues and we also do take legal actions. We provide a lot of information that is educational as well on on key issues. But our website is the best way of finding out more about us and please sign up to our newsletter.

01;54;22;28 – 01;54;27;08

Robert Verkerk

WW Dot A and H hyphen dot org.

01;54;28;19 – 01;54;39;12

Nathan Crane

Fantastic. Awesome. Well, thanks, Robert. Like I said, it’s been a excellent conversation. I really appreciate it this time with you and look forward to.

01;54;40;17 – 01;54;41;05

Robert Verkerk

Seeing you.

01;54;41;16 – 01;54;43;00

Nathan Crane

In senior year. Tober.

01;54;43;00 – 01;54;48;29

Robert Verkerk

Yeah, October. Absolute. Can’t wait. Nathan It’s been great talking with you. Great work.

01;54;49;07 – 01;54;50;15

Nathan Crane

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

01;54;50;21 – 01;54;52;01

Robert Verkerk

Take care. Bye bye.

 

Please leave comments and questions below