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Watch this latest podcast episode with my special guest, Dr. Michael Greger, a renowned nutrition expert. Dr. Greger dives into the fascinating world of aging, epigenetics, and the power of lifestyle choices. Learn how simple changes in diet, exercise, and daily habits can dramatically impact your healthspan and lifespan.Â
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Audio Transcript
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(This transcript was auto-generated so there may be some errors)
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00:00:00:00 – 00:00:26:17
Nathan Crane
All right. Welcome back to the podcast today. I am excited to be joined by Dr. Michael Greger. Dr. Michael Greger is a founding member and fellow of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, an internationally recognized speaker and physician on nutrition. His science-based nonprofit Nutrition Facts Dawg offers a free online portal horse hosting more than 2000 videos and articles on health topics.
00:00:26:17 – 00:00:52:08
Nathan Crane
If you haven’t been over there, go check out the website a lot of great videos diving deep into the science on all kinds of health topics, and I always gain a lot of benefit by watching those videos, so make sure you guys go check them out if you haven’t already. He’s presented at the Conference on World Affairs, testified before Congress was even invited as an expert witness at Oprah Winfrey’s defense in the infamous meat defamation trial.
00:00:52:21 – 00:01:22:18
Nathan Crane
All proceeds Dr. Greger receives from the sales of his books and speaking are donated directly to charity. And today we’re talking about his newest book, How Not to Age. I’ve got an advance copy here, by the way. We’re going to dig into this. There’s a lot of golden nuggets in here that is going to help all of you learn many of the things you can do to help your body thrive and live a long time and healthy.
00:01:22:18 – 00:01:26:10
Nathan Crane
So, Dr. Greger, thanks for coming on, man. Great to have you back here on the podcast.
00:01:26:21 – 00:01:33:01
Dr. Michael Greger
I’m so excited to be back. I hope to help inspire some of your viewers to live longer, better lives.
00:01:34:01 – 00:01:45:03
Nathan Crane
So to get out of the way. My first question is, isn’t that title how not to age? Is that a bit of a misnomer or almost unobtainable because don’t we all age.
00:01:45:06 – 00:02:09:13
Dr. Michael Greger
I yeah you just as my earlier book How not to die I was not about living forever. It’s not about it’s not how to not die but how not to die as in prematurely in pain after a long, chronic disabling illness. Similarly, how not to age has a similar premise not about immortality, but how to age with vitality and grace and not suffer from the ravages of infirmity and disease.
00:02:10:20 – 00:02:34:12
Nathan Crane
I think that’s pretty important today, right? So many people I think, are aging prematurely, are, even though our statistics seemingly have increased lifespan. But have we increased healthspan? And even recently, there are some statistics showing that that this next generation may actually be the first in a very, very long time, maybe first ever to live less than their parents.
00:02:34:12 – 00:02:43:12
Nathan Crane
So, you know, people have been saying, oh, yeah, but we’ve been living longer. It’s like, well, have we been living healthier? And is that longer trend actually continuing? What is it?
00:02:43:12 – 00:03:06:11
Dr. Michael Greger
Right. It’s not just about adding years to your life, but life to your years. In fact, you know, when asked how long do you want to live in a survey offer the choice between 85 years or one, 21, 50 or indefinitely. Most people actually choose 85. But if you reframe the question and say, well, wait a second, no, no, no, how long do you wish to live in guaranteed mental and physical health?
00:03:06:17 – 00:03:30:07
Dr. Michael Greger
Oh, then all of a sudden it goes switch is to an unlimited lifespan, right? This raised the concept of healthy, of healthspan, the period of life spent in good health, free from chronic disease and disability. I mean, what’s the point of living longer if you can’t enjoy it vibrantly? And indeed we have been living longer in sickness, not in health.
00:03:31:02 – 00:03:54:09
Dr. Michael Greger
Our long our life expectancy in the United States peaked in 2014 and fortunately is trended down since then thanks to the obesity epidemic such that for the first generation ever, as you noted, I’m raising the generation with a lower life expectancy than their than their parents. And that was before COVID, which came along, knocked about two years over life expectancy.
00:03:54:09 – 00:04:00:18
Dr. Michael Greger
So we’ve got a long way to go. And so perfect timing for the book to come out and hopefully help some people.
00:04:01:11 – 00:04:22:21
Nathan Crane
So in the book you talk about genetics and I think more importantly epigenetic sex. Hmm. Can you talk a little bit about epigenetics? What that is why it’s important for people don’t know what it is or understand the science of epigenetics and how that plays a important role into disease prevention and increasing healthspan and lifespan.
00:04:23:24 – 00:04:56:17
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. So according to studies on identical twins, only about 25% of the variation in lifespan between individuals has to do with our genes. So the question is, well, what can we do over the majority of which we have control? And even in that genetic predisposition, even in that minor already there’s this concept called epigenetics, which is characterized by the pattern of DNA methylation can be thought of as Candida.
00:04:56:17 – 00:05:27:22
Dr. Michael Greger
The lens through which our genetic information is filtered, genes can be turned on and turned off based on how we eat and how we live. So thankfully, epigenetic changes are reversible. So even if that kind of lens becomes cloudy with age, may be able to kind of polish it back into focus. And this involves a number of things, the vitamins that have to do with their methylation capacity, like folate, as well as caloric restriction, physical activity, smoking cessation.
00:05:28:14 – 00:05:42:07
Dr. Michael Greger
I’m eating more fruits and vegetables. These are all things that can slow. It’s called the epigenetic clock, which is this pattern of changes with time, which is actually better predicts are remaining lifespan than our actual biological age.
00:05:42:22 – 00:06:14:14
Nathan Crane
Yeah, well said. And you know, I’m reminded of Bruce Lipton in my documentary about cancer and he said, look, genes don’t cause cancer. There’s no gene that causes cancer. He said if genes were the cause of cancer, which a lot of people are told today, and that’s what they believe and is leading a lot of women, I think, unnecessarily to chop off their breasts, unfortunately, he said, look, women with the BRCA1 gene, if that gene cause cancer, then 100% of women would have cancer who have that gene.
00:06:14:14 – 00:06:42:09
Nathan Crane
But only 50% of women with the BRCA1 gene ever end up with cancer. And so that’s why, you know, understanding the science of epigenetics is so important is because what is it in our physiological mechanisms within the body that we can turn on and off, we can upregulate or downregulate these genes, these cancer genes, these longevity genes, you know, genes that lead to other chronic diseases, chronic inflammatory conditions within the body, right?
00:06:43:07 – 00:07:12:08
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. And it’s important to recognize this so-called latency stage of cancer. So for something like colorectal cancer latency phase of 50 years, meaning the cancer starts 50 years before diagnosis, before it actually shows up. And so it’s all about just slowing down the doubling rate of tumor size. And so, for example, you know, if you do autopsy studies in accident victims, about a third of men by their forties have prostate cancers, two thirds by their sixties.
00:07:12:22 – 00:07:34:17
Dr. Michael Greger
I’m about 40% of women in their forties have microscopic breast cancers. Um, as we get older or nearly 100% of us develop these low thyroid cancers, but who cares if we get diagnosed in 100 years? We don’t expect to be around that long. It’s all about slowing down the rate. So we die with our cancer rather than from our cancer.
00:07:35:12 – 00:07:56:07
Dr. Michael Greger
So, for example, autopsy rates in Japan, in the U.S., very similar prostate cancer rates. But the rate of death from prostate cancer in in Japan was 40 times lower than it was in the United States. Unless, of course, they moved in. And as they start eating and living like Americans, then they start living and dying like Americans as well.
00:07:56:07 – 00:08:09:00
Dr. Michael Greger
And so it’s not the genetics, it’s about the role that or dying environment can play over the expression of that genetics. Right. Genes load the gun, but environment pulls the trigger.
00:08:09:15 – 00:08:48:13
Nathan Crane
Now, I haven’t seen that specific study from Japan on prostate cancer that you were talking about, but I’m curious if those who are dying from prostate cancer at much low 40 times lower rates, as you said, in Japan than the U.S., I wonder if that has anything to do with the treatment options that people are choosing as well versus their if they’re choosing more, you know, not going down necessarily the conventional path towards treatment and treating things more naturally or not, I don’t know versus here where if you have prostate cancer, you know, we know the majority of people who go in with a diagnosis to an oncologist are going for conventional treatment.
00:08:48:13 – 00:08:58:00
Nathan Crane
And with prostate cancer. Conventional treatment, I know, is very actually ineffective with chemotherapy and radiation, especially, you know, prostate cancer is one of the really tough ones.
00:08:58:22 – 00:09:21:09
Dr. Michael Greger
They’re well, they they have a ten times lower incidence of being diagnosed with prostate cancer, even though on autopsy, they actually have the same cancers. They just don’t grow fast enough to to to to come up to become noticeable or to become dangerous within one’s lifetime. So, you know, we have the sense that we’re preventing, you know, what can we do to prevent cancer?
00:09:21:09 – 00:09:39:21
Dr. Michael Greger
But, I mean, since many of the for solid tumors like breast, colon, lung, etc., the latency time can be decades. So the day we’re diagnosed with cancer is like, oh, yesterday I didn’t have cancer, now I have cancer. No, you’ve had cancer for decades. And so many of the things we do to prevent cancer, we’re actually treating it.
00:09:39:21 – 00:09:57:11
Dr. Michael Greger
Little do we know. Right. And so that’s why the earlier we can get on board and start cleaning up our diet and lifestyle, the better. Because, you know, a lot of there’s these lurking little cancers that we can suppress their growth or accelerate their growth depending on how we live our lives.
00:09:58:02 – 00:10:22:07
Nathan Crane
So you kind of rush past that. I’d love for you to spend a little bit more time on some of the things that you’ve identified and you talked about in the book that actually can turn down these cancer genes or other, you know, chronic chronic disease genes in the body and turn up or turn on some of the genes that are associated with, you know, longevity and health and vitality.
00:10:23:19 – 00:10:48:08
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. So in terms of things we can do to slow the growth of cancer, there is a growth learning hormone called IGF one insulin like growth factor one, which is boosted predominantly by the consumption of excess amounts of animal protein. That increases the levels of IGF one and that increases the risk of of a number of cancers across the board.
00:10:48:16 – 00:11:19:03
Dr. Michael Greger
And the other cancer promoting hormone that’s involved with enzyme excuse me that’s involved with with aging is mature. This is some lady has a pro cancer effect as well as a age accelerating effect. And we can slow that down through what’s called my thymine restriction, which is again, either reducing our protein across the board down to recommended levels or switching from animal protein sources to predominately plant protein sources.
00:11:19:11 – 00:11:26:05
Dr. Michael Greger
That’ll reduce our refining intake and and slow down this age accelerating cancer, accelerating hormone.
00:11:27:17 – 00:11:47:20
Nathan Crane
So IGF one kind of gets a bad rap, right? I mean, in my decade plus in cancer research, a lot of the talk is in in the research is, you know, as as IGF one increases, your risk for cancer goes up. So we want to reduce IGF one. But idea of one is a hormone in the body that’s really important for bone and tissue growth.
00:11:47:20 – 00:12:05:01
Nathan Crane
Right. Like it’s it’s not all bad. Just like and I know you’re not saying that, but for people tuning in, it’s I even used to have this kind of subconsciously like, oh, IGF one is bad, but it’s only when it is at elevated levels for prolonged periods of time. Right.
00:12:05:19 – 00:12:30:14
Dr. Michael Greger
Right. So look at when we’re children. And that’s the whole point. We want growth hormones with that’s where immature an idea of one can come play a role. It’s only when we reached adult height that’s what we need to dial down some of these growth hormones because those that constant growth signaling when we’ve already achieved our maximum height can fuel the growth of tiny tumors within our bodies.
00:12:30:14 – 00:12:56:07
Dr. Michael Greger
And so, for example, there is something called Laurel Syndrome, which is a lifelong IGF one deficiency, and they actually grow to a very short stature, but they’re essentially cancer proof, not a single case of cancer death has been reported. And and they’re also protected from a wide range of of of chronic diseases. But, of course. So how do you get the best of both worlds?
00:12:56:07 – 00:13:19:20
Dr. Michael Greger
We actually grow to normal stature, but you still be able to downregulated this this growth hormone. Well, you have regular IGF signaling until you reach your little stature. And then really it’s all about down regulating these growth hormones, not enough to interfere with muscle mass secretion, but enough to decrease the pro tumor signaling.
00:13:21:06 – 00:13:25:20
Nathan Crane
And is that an easy test people can get to find out their IGF one levels of.
00:13:25:22 – 00:13:49:14
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah, you can get your IGF one levels. You want to get it combined with your IGF one binding protein levels because there’s two, it’s kind of like testosterone in the body. There’s a there’s a there’s free testosterone bound testosterone is similar with the IGF one and also a binding protein that kind of a snatch squat of proteins trying to reduce IGF one levels to protect your body from cancer.
00:13:50:02 – 00:14:13:07
Dr. Michael Greger
So you’re going high levels of binding protein, decreased levels of the of the growth the growth hormone. And within two weeks of going on a a predominantly plant based diet, along with mild exercise, like walking, you can significantly decrease IGF one level such that if you drip the blood of people before and after two weeks, eating healthier aren’t either brisk.
00:14:13:11 – 00:14:39:14
Dr. Michael Greger
Women on the breast cancer cells or men on the prostate cancer cells. You can significantly decrease the growth of that cancer, making your bloodstream essentially more inhospitable to cancer, increasing cancer death rates by 20% just after two weeks. And we think it’s IGF one, because if you add back to the culture medium, the IGF one, you banished from your system because you start eating, living healthier, all of a sudden you erase that anti-cancer effect.
00:14:40:14 – 00:15:02:11
Nathan Crane
Yeah, it’s powerful. I know you wrote about a study that higher IGF one levels were only associated with animal protein intake and in fact, plant protein seemed to decrease IGF one levels. Do you remember that study and how it was? I don’t have in front of me, but I could pull it up if you need me to. But do you remember?
00:15:02:15 – 00:15:06:06
Nathan Crane
Do you remember that study and what exactly what it said?
00:15:06:21 – 00:15:28:16
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. There’s a whole series of studies that showed that at sufficiently high protein levels, it doesn’t matter whether it’s animal or plant, you’re going to increase IGF one levels. It’s only when you get down to to moderate levels of protein intake, recommended levels of protein intake, 3.8 grams, rather a gram bodyweight. Does it matter whether you’re eating animal protein, plant protein at those levels?
00:15:28:23 – 00:15:43:09
Dr. Michael Greger
Animal protein does indeed increase it. And plant protein either has a neutral effect like soy protein, which is very kind of similar in amino acid profile to animal proteins or non soy proteins actually decrease activity, decrease IGF one.
00:15:44:10 – 00:16:06:06
Nathan Crane
What about for athletes? So someone who’s actually exercising, you know, daily, maybe lifting weights or, you know, trying to build more muscle mass there, you know, taking more protein to increase IGF one. Right. They’re trying to actually increase the hormones that are going to, you know, repair and regenerate and rebuild. They’re trying to increase testosterone naturally, and HGH and these kinds of things naturally.
00:16:07:08 – 00:16:18:10
Nathan Crane
Are they at the same risk of increase IGF one if they’re on a higher plant protein than, let’s say, somebody who’s not doing as much exercise?
00:16:19:14 – 00:16:54:13
Dr. Michael Greger
So that’s the concern going into this. Certainly when I started looking into the book, is that okay? Well, we know the downsides of IGF one in terms of fueling cancer growth. But what about the upsides of IGF one, unlike physical capacity as we get older? So the might there be a balancing act? But there was a but there’s a Mendelian randomization study which is basically, you know, people are effectively randomized at birth in terms of which sperm each with egg to either have higher or lower lifelong IGF one levels.
00:16:55:05 – 00:17:23:18
Dr. Michael Greger
And so it’s kind of luck of the draw regardless of what you eat or how you live. And there does not appear to be any difference in physical capacity as we age for those who have higher or lower IGF one levels. And there was actually an interventional trial in postmenopausal women who injected themselves with IGF one for a year compared to placebo and actually found no change in lean mass, no change in muscle strength compared to the placebo group, and no change in bone mineral density.
00:17:24:15 – 00:17:25:23
Dr. Michael Greger
And so, you.
00:17:25:23 – 00:17:33:02
Nathan Crane
Know, if they were supersizing, you know, if those women were exercising on that study or not.
00:17:33:02 – 00:17:40:14
Dr. Michael Greger
I don’t remember what their if there was kind of an forced exercise regimen of that or not.
00:17:40:14 – 00:17:41:13
Nathan Crane
Because I’m sure that was just.
00:17:41:13 – 00:17:41:16
Dr. Michael Greger
That.
00:17:41:16 – 00:17:43:03
Nathan Crane
The IGF difference. Yeah.
00:17:43:11 – 00:18:01:22
Dr. Michael Greger
Well, but it would suggest at least the IGF on alone. Right. Does not appear to make a difference for muscle bone or at least additional IGF one, which suggests, hey, we can kind of get into the best of both worlds by trying to reduce levels.
00:18:02:16 – 00:18:24:06
Nathan Crane
Gotcha. Yeah. It’d be really interesting to know or to see a study like that where they did compare, you know, people working out and increasing IGF one versus people not working out because we know bone density has a lot to do, not only with nutrition, but also with putting the bones under continuous stress, you know, load bearing, right?
00:18:24:06 – 00:18:41:09
Nathan Crane
By putting a bar on your back and back squatting or doing any kind of resistance, weight training, especially as you age, you know, we know that one of the worst things for people in their seventies and eighties that ends up in the hospital and ends up killing a lot of people, unfortunately, is falling down and breaking a hip.
00:18:41:09 – 00:19:04:15
Nathan Crane
You know, my father just turned 70. And the one thing about him, I think that’s helped him so much, even though he’s gone through a lot of really toxic, bad habits over his life, he’s been on a healthier diet the last few years, but he’s gone on and off of it. You know, his nutrition has not been that great for 50, 60 years, but he’s always worked out his whole life.
00:19:04:23 – 00:19:27:23
Nathan Crane
And so I bet if we were to measure his bone density is probably higher than most people in their seventies because he’s worked out his whole life and he’s fallen so many times, like in the bathtub, like hard, you know, hitting really hard things. And I’m always surprised, like nothing ever breaks. And I just, you know, I have to assume it’s because of how, you know, he’s been lifting weights for so long.
00:19:27:23 – 00:19:30:16
Nathan Crane
It’s helped his helped him a lot.
00:19:30:16 – 00:20:00:20
Dr. Michael Greger
So anyway, weight bearing exercise absolutely can improve bone strength. But because osteoporotic fractures more of a function of falls rather than bone density, about 85% of fall risk, it’s nothing do bone density. It’s all about follow prevention. The single most thing we can do and how do we prevent falls lower limb strength training and balance training so resistance exercise specifically to maintain that that lower limb strength so you don’t end up falling.
00:20:00:20 – 00:20:05:03
Dr. Michael Greger
And so then regardless of how strong your bones are, you’re not going to break them.
00:20:05:14 – 00:20:34:11
Nathan Crane
Well, that’s huge. You talk about exercise a lot in the book as well. And so let’s say for you know, for people who are, you know, 50, 60 and older who are trying to prevent ending up in the hospital for broken bones, for from falling, you know, trying to have more energy as they age, feel better, less pain, less fatigue, you know, be that 70, 80, 90 year old person with good energy and vitality.
00:20:34:22 – 00:20:40:22
Nathan Crane
What are some of the exercise protocols that they should be implementing on a regular basis?
00:20:40:22 – 00:21:20:00
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah, the the health benefits of exercise really are overwhelming, not just about improving muscle mass and strength, physical performance, lowering the risk of falls. Much more than that improves cognition, enhances mood, can treat depression, improves artery function, erectile function, insulin sensitivity, overall quality of life. Exercise is medicine. And although it’s important to recognize that any amount of exercise is better than none, there are increasing benefits to exercise that max out.
00:21:20:00 – 00:21:40:20
Dr. Michael Greger
Add in the very least 90 minutes of moderate intensity, exercise a day or 45 minutes of vigorous activity. It’s possible there are greater gains after that. There just aren’t studies looking at enough people that actually exercise more than that. But there are progressive increases all the way at least up to 90 minutes for moderate and 45 for vigorous.
00:21:40:20 – 00:22:24:12
Dr. Michael Greger
This is in addition to balance training, in addition to resistance training, particularly important for for older men and women, although, you know, adding in younger men and women is different, but the elderly adding an excess protein like protein powders and shakes to to the men and women does not actually increase bone mass bone strength performance. And so but what does resistance exercise on weight training I mean so so critically important as we age so we don’t lose muscle mass and become circle pinnick or have an excess of age related muscle loss.
00:22:24:24 – 00:22:50:22
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s I’ve seen those studies as well. And it’s, you know, it’s it is important to get that balance right. Someone might that balance of the four different things there’s resistance training there’s like kind of zone to cardiovascular like light exercise light to moderate exercise, which would be something like jogging or brisk walking or, you know, light swimming or light cycling, something like that.
00:22:50:22 – 00:23:17:21
Nathan Crane
Even even, you know, tennis at a, you know, easy to moderate level these kinds of things, as well as a high intensity exercise, which is I have a friend, I think she’s almost 80. She lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And she she does high intensity training, but she does it she’ll do like 2 minutes, like kind of high intensity, usually bodyweight or light dumbbells, and then one or 2 minutes rest, 2 minutes on 2 minutes.
00:23:18:00 – 00:23:36:22
Nathan Crane
And she says it’s changed her life and given her so much energy when she started doing this kind of hit training. It’s not like everyone has to go to a CrossFit gym and lift heavy barbells, but just getting that heart rate up, the blood flowing lymphatic system, you know, pumping the the neurons release the neurochemicals release in the brain and make you feel good.
00:23:37:04 – 00:23:54:21
Nathan Crane
It’s like there’s I’ve found nothing as close to giving you a pure, natural high of feeling great than something like high intensity interval training. And it studies show right as you age, it’s, it’s essential for your health.
00:23:55:20 – 00:24:19:03
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That, that’s really a missing component I think is really under emphasized I think the kind of the powers that be. In fact if you look you know I document how you know the recommendations for exercise have actually get smaller and smaller and now down to 20 something minutes a day. And it’s because and they’re very explicit about it because they wanted to seem approachable, to doable, not intimidate people.
00:24:19:06 – 00:24:38:13
Dr. Michael Greger
And yes, it’s true. And amount of access is better than none, you know, frankly, you know, forget the patronizing and to just give me the signs, tell me what’s best. And look, you know, and and acknowledging that, you know, and is better than non more is better than less. But, you know, the message has not gotten through that.
00:24:38:13 – 00:24:49:08
Dr. Michael Greger
Yes. And 50 minute walk is fantastic. Better than nothing. But there are additional health benefits accrue to more vigorous, vigorous amounts and types of exercise.
00:24:49:17 – 00:25:12:06
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. And then you said balance training in there as well. You know, one of the balanced things that idea is qigong is a great for balance. Yoga is great for balance, taichi is great for balance. But again, you know, as you age, having balance is essential to preventing falls, as you’ve talked about, you know, having that sense of balance and dexterity and able to to move and catch yourself and things like that.
00:25:12:06 – 00:25:33:13
Nathan Crane
So I do a ten minute qigong practice every morning and that’s some cool light, the easy that everyone can do, you know, that helps with helps with balance that eases subtle movement. So in the book you also talk about telomeres. You know, telomeres are associated with longevity. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, what they are, why they’re important to to understand?
00:25:33:24 – 00:25:38:19
Nathan Crane
And we could talk about some things that we know help improve our telomere length. For example.
00:25:39:06 – 00:26:02:16
Dr. Michael Greger
Who are telomeres are kind of protective caps at the tips of our chromosomes, kind of like the caps on the end of our shoelaces to keep our shoelaces from unraveling. Well, they keep our DNA from unraveling. And it’s one of the kind of aging pathways really has kind of crept into public consciousness, increasing telomere length to slowing prevent aging is a popular idea.
00:26:02:16 – 00:26:34:02
Dr. Michael Greger
The science is a little more kind of complicated than that, but telomere elongation is possible through the activation of an enzyme called telomerase. I’m there’s this constant battle between the forces that are hacking away at our telomeres, such as oxidative stress and inflammation and the lifestyle decisions that can help kind of build them back up, which include quitting smoking, reducing our intake of refined grains, soda, processed meat and dairy, while increasing our intake of fruits, vegetables and other kind of antioxidant rich foods.
00:26:34:24 – 00:26:49:23
Dr. Michael Greger
And if we are low in vitamin D, meaning we have a vitamin D level under 29 grams per milliliter or 50 NANOMOLES per liter, supplementing with 800 to 2000 international units of D3 a day also been shown to improve our telomere length.
00:26:51:01 – 00:27:13:24
Nathan Crane
So is everyone born with a set telomere length and does it grow and increase over time and then start to kind of get damaged and wither away through oxidative stress and inflammation and then you kind of can regrow it to its original length, for example. Or how does that work, do you know?
00:27:14:04 – 00:27:41:14
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. So we’re basically born with with full telomeres. And then every time a cell divides, a little bit of the telomere is lost. Our cells, basically when our cells cells only divide about 50 times before they become senescent or basically are die off or unable to replicate. And that length of how many times they depend on telomere length as soon as the telomeres are going to work on.
00:27:41:14 – 00:28:07:01
Dr. Michael Greger
So it’s been kind of a little oversimplified, but it’s kind of like our life’s views. When telomeres gone, we’re gone too. The reason why is a little more complicated than that is that our our cell is only as healthy as our shortest telomere. So a lot of these studies measure average telomere length. And so you can show studies that, you know, randomize people to different diets and have better overall average telomere length or not.
00:28:07:01 – 00:28:31:06
Dr. Michael Greger
But actually, what you want to know is what is the length of your shortest telomere? Because once that gets critically short game over, no matter how long your other telomeres are. So, so, so with that caveat and typically the same things that, you know, improve average length, also improve length, the shortest one. But it’s just important to recognize that that’s really what we’re looking at most kind of the critical factor.
00:28:31:11 – 00:28:36:11
Dr. Michael Greger
But yeah, inflammation, oxidation, so we can control that through a healthy diet and lifestyle.
00:28:37:01 – 00:28:55:20
Nathan Crane
So tell them telomeres, the old thinking. What was the old thinking? Kind of like the old thinking around neurons in the brain that you couldn’t regrow. What was the old thinking around neurons in the brain? No, not right. Telomeres wasn’t that the old thinking as well, like.
00:28:55:20 – 00:29:19:09
Dr. Michael Greger
No, no, you’re right. Neurons, once they die, neurons don’t replicate anymore. But once you become a neuron, that’s it. So you only have as many neurons as basically you’re born with. And so it just goes in one direction until there was this really dramatic experiment where they took people who were terminally ill and injected them with basically this radioactive tags that tag their DNA.
00:29:19:09 – 00:29:42:02
Dr. Michael Greger
And then after a few months when they died, actually looked into their brain and saw new nerve cells containing this this marker showing that indeed, even late in life, neurogenesis is possible, we can make more nerve cells. And so that’s like, oh, thank God, you know, so I mean, I mean, still we want to decrease the things that are neurotoxic, you know, mercury, exposure, alcohol, some other things.
00:29:42:05 – 00:30:02:03
Dr. Michael Greger
But at least there’s, there’s there’s a lot of hope there. And same thing with telomerase. I mean, with telomeres, we used to think, you know, we’re born with the longest and they just consistently get hacked down and maybe we can slow down the rate until they discovered this enzyme in literally Methuselah, which is a bristlecone pine tree. It’s already lived thousands of years.
00:30:02:03 – 00:30:24:23
Dr. Michael Greger
It was actually you know, it was came out of a seed before the Egyptian palm pyramids were there when the longest lived organisms on the planet, they found this enzyme called telomerase, which actually extended the telomeres. No wonder this tree could go on for thousands of years. And then once they knew what they were looking for, they went looking for it and they found it in rats and mice and then finally in humans in a ha enzyme that can actually elongate telomeres.
00:30:25:03 – 00:30:53:13
Dr. Michael Greger
And so even though yes, on an average population level, our telomeres every year get smaller and smaller as we age, but on an individual basis, it’s not unusual to see people bounce around. And so one year to next they can actually have longer telomeres and then shorter. And over time they do tend to get lower and lower. But they’re really we do have control on to a certain extent something like air pollution can hack away at our telomeres.
00:30:53:13 – 00:31:05:13
Dr. Michael Greger
And we may or may not have the kind of mobility to be able to uproot ourselves and move to someplace through cleaner air. But these are factors that we have at least some semblance of control over.
00:31:05:24 – 00:31:11:08
Nathan Crane
So could you just take a telomerase enzyme capsule and be done with it?
00:31:11:21 – 00:31:34:07
Dr. Michael Greger
So well. Well, well, there’s certainly been talk about using something like CRISPR technology to boost the the production of telomerase. The the reason. So you have to take a step back a little bit and say, well, wait a second, why would we evolve to have our telomeres disappear in the first place? Right. Why put a hard cap on 50 cell divisions and call it done?
00:31:34:14 – 00:32:01:14
Dr. Michael Greger
It’s because our bodies are trying to protect ourselves from cancer. So our shortening telomeres and the fact that there is only so many times a cell can divide is our bodies way to kind of balance longevity with cancer promotion. And so the concern is if we can artificially boost mom rates, might that enable cancer cells to to survive longer?
00:32:01:14 – 00:32:23:01
Dr. Michael Greger
And indeed, cancer cells do kind of hijack telomerase and use it or use it to grow. But thankfully, when you do this in the in vitro, like in a petri dish and you boost telomerase activity, it doesn’t turn cells cancer. So it’s not a sufficient initiate of cancer, but it can be a promoter of cancer. One’s cancer is already there, so it doesn’t.
00:32:23:08 – 00:32:41:12
Dr. Michael Greger
So adding more telomerase doesn’t turn a cell under cancer. But if it is already a cancer cell, it can use it to to facilitate its growth. And the problem is, you know, so many of us may have these little microscopic tumors budding in our bodies that even though we don’t think we have cancer, maybe we have some little microscopic cancer somewhere.
00:32:41:12 – 00:33:00:13
Dr. Michael Greger
And so artificially, you know, boosting telomerase too much could be a problem. But we have not seen that with the lifestyle interventions that Bustillo Emery’s things that increase telomerase like exercise, healthy diets tend to be associated with lower cancer rates. And so we get the best of both worlds with these lifestyle interventions.
00:33:01:01 – 00:33:18:08
Nathan Crane
Now with increasing telomeres and telomere length fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, exercise some of these things. Now these at least what I’ve seen are through studies have been associated with increasing. Are there any clinical trials, you know.
00:33:18:08 – 00:33:37:05
Dr. Michael Greger
Oh yeah, I know that there are interventional trials. In fact, the first major one with Dr. Dean Ornish and Lewis Blackburn, who won the Nobel Prize for the discovery of telomerase. And they showed for the first time in intervention in an interventional trial, randomized controlled trial, we randomized people to a plant based diet and lifestyle, the same one that Dean Ornish used to reverse.
00:33:37:05 – 00:34:03:12
Dr. Michael Greger
Heart disease, number one, killer of men and women. Put them on that and was able to show within months a boosted telomerase and then more importantly, followed them up five years later and could show that that increase in telomerase actually led to increased telomere length over time, when of course, it should be. And it continued to decrease in the control group, which was just told to, you know, follow whatever diet lifestyle your doctor tells you to, which is typically very little.
00:34:04:03 – 00:34:21:05
Dr. Michael Greger
And so that was the first to show it and there have been subsequent studies. But and so whether it was the anti-inflammatory of the diet or all the antioxidants are not exactly sure which component. But but I mean, it’s been shown that it’s not just kind of a correlation, but proves cause and effect.
00:34:21:17 – 00:34:37:06
Nathan Crane
Yeah, that’s huge. And for those who don’t know, the Dean Ornish program is basically it’s four aspects, right? It’s a whole food, nutrient dense plant based diet. It’s, you know, exercise like stress reduction practices like meditation. And what was the fourth one?
00:34:38:02 – 00:34:39:16
Dr. Michael Greger
Well, smoking cessation.
00:34:39:16 – 00:34:44:05
Nathan Crane
Smoking cessation. Uh huh. And was that the fourth one? Wasn’t there something. Well.
00:34:44:15 – 00:34:46:18
Dr. Michael Greger
So there’s like social ties. This part of the social.
00:34:46:18 – 00:34:47:01
Nathan Crane
Yeah.
00:34:47:01 – 00:34:49:20
Dr. Michael Greger
Community do like group, you know.
00:34:49:20 – 00:35:15:04
Nathan Crane
Yeah, yeah. Community. Yeah. Which we know is, is essential for for health and happiness and longevity. There’s been a lot of studies on that. In fact. Okay. So basically to kind of put a bow on that piece because it’s been really interesting, we can talk about telomeres for hours, but what you said is, you know what what decreases telomere length is oxidative stress and inflammation.
00:35:15:15 – 00:35:28:17
Nathan Crane
Right. And so I guess question on that actually is what about, you know, healthy oxidative stress and healthy inflammation like from hormones is right. Hermetic stressors like high intensity exercise done right.
00:35:28:17 – 00:35:51:06
Dr. Michael Greger
Right. No. So they’re not they’re not pro-inflammatory influences, oxidative stress in the long run. That’s the whole point of our meetings. Although while so for example, you marathon runners I mean you actually get an increase in the amount of DNA breaks in there. You know, the white blood cells, you take a blood sample. And so, you know, at the end of a race, you can see up to 8% of their cells actually show physical breaks in their DNA.
00:35:51:07 – 00:36:10:08
Dr. Michael Greger
That’s how much oxidative stress, how much free radical damage are. But then follow them up a week later. Guess what? They have fewer DNA breaks than when they started in the first place, because what it does is it revs up your DNA repair enzymes. So then just when you’re walking around day to day, you have that increased level of protection.
00:36:10:08 – 00:36:31:20
Dr. Michael Greger
You know, that which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. And that’s the whole hormone direction. So it’s actually an overall anti I my yeah. Antioxidant activity. Same thing with inflammation. Yes. You can get the small little micro terrorist in your muscles and you see a bump in some of the inflammatory markers. But come back later after you recover, you know, just go back to baseline.
00:36:31:24 – 00:37:00:06
Dr. Michael Greger
You actually go down even lower your CRP, your IL six, these proteins that these systemic markers of a nation are actually better than you were before because you ramped up your kind of protective responses. You see the same thing with green tea and cruciferous vegetables. They actually cause they actually they activate the what is called nerve to system of antioxidant defense in the body actually sees cruciferous vegetables and green tea as a threat.
00:37:01:05 – 00:37:12:20
Dr. Michael Greger
And and and and basically ramps up defenses to to to to counter it. And in doing so is a traumatic reaction. We actually had a better in the long run.
00:37:13:17 – 00:37:39:15
Nathan Crane
That’s huge. You just reminded me of an interview I did years ago with Ruth Heidrich. Who? Yeah. Yeah, you know, Ruth, she’s I think she’s like almost 90 by now. She’s in her eighties, maybe early nineties, and she’s run hundreds and hundreds of marathons, Ultramarathons Ironman. She’s won something like 900 medals. And she was diagnosed with a really aggressive breast cancer in her late forties.
00:37:40:00 – 00:38:04:06
Nathan Crane
Switched to a whole food plant based diet has been vegan ever since. So I think 40 plus years and has been doing all of this ultra endurance, you know, running and activities all of that time. And so there is this kind of thought or a lot of even even, let’s say holistic doctors or functional medical doctors will say, well, yeah, marathon is not good for you.
00:38:04:06 – 00:38:23:22
Nathan Crane
It’s too much damage. You know, running marathons all the time is actually going to break you down more. That’s really fascinating what you just said, a study where, yeah, they had a massive decrease right after running the marathon. But a week later, they actually were their DNA repair was better than it was before they ran the marathon. So it starts to kind of flip some of those ideas up.
00:38:23:22 – 00:38:24:08
Nathan Crane
Yeah, no, no.
00:38:24:18 – 00:38:45:18
Dr. Michael Greger
No. I mean. Right. Well, when you say marathons all the time, you can overstress. You can’t overdo it. Look, exercise is medicine is powerful. And like medicine, right. There’s a safe dosing range. Right. I think the reason you don’t hear about, you know, people overdoing it is because it’s a very tiny fraction. Right. Most people aren’t getting their asses off the couch.
00:38:45:18 – 00:39:09:03
Dr. Michael Greger
And so the big public health message is, look, just got to start moving. And, you know, they’re not talking. But it’s true. I would say you studies, you can actually overdo it. You need to allow your body time to recover. And if you don’t, you can do this. You can get this kind of a cumulative stress, but with sufficient recovery time, you just kind of get all the pros without the cons.
00:39:10:08 – 00:39:15:12
Nathan Crane
So in the book you say baking causes cancer.
00:39:15:12 – 00:39:16:10
Dr. Michael Greger
What causes cancer?
00:39:16:16 – 00:39:41:19
Nathan Crane
Bacon baking. Baking. Oh, because cancer bake, you know, we know people are going to hate that. We know bacon and processed meat is, you know, classified as a carcinogen. And, you know, before I was plant based, I used to love bacon. You know, I grew up on meat and potatoes in Montana. But for those who love their bacon, help explain why it causes cancer.
00:39:42:00 – 00:40:10:05
Dr. Michael Greger
You know, look, you know, lotsa really great guys because kids are bacon, you know, alcohol, right? Alcohol’s carcinogenic, too, right? It’s metabolized. The acid aldehyde is a known human carcinogen. So it’s all about look, it doesn’t matter what you eat on your birthday, your holidays, special occasions. Right. And so, you know, these really should be kind of special, you know, occasion, you know, treat kind of foods.
00:40:10:14 – 00:40:31:08
Dr. Michael Greger
We should really savor it. We should get the best quality. You know, we could you know, it’s the people that are just, like, chomping bacon while they’re watching TV and they’ve gone through a whole play that even enjoy it. It’s like, Ah, you’re killing me and look a little can go a long way, right? And so rather than thinking like a big hunk of, you know, animal protein on the plate, right?
00:40:31:08 – 00:41:10:02
Dr. Michael Greger
Using it as a flavoring, as a condiment, as a, you know, little pieces of bacon crumble in and, you know, to a lot of healthy food, you know, it can help the broccoli to go down a little better, but, yeah, the problem the problem with bacon are these other processed meats, like baking them hot dogs, lunch, meat, sausage, are these nitrosamines and nitrous oxide which are carcinogenic compounds which are created when the nitrites, which are preservatives that are added to to to cure meat, combines with the minds of amines that’s found in the meat to create these nitrosamines in termites which end up costing us problems.
00:41:10:02 – 00:41:31:05
Dr. Michael Greger
They said, Wait a second, why don’t I get nitrate free bacon? You see that advertised all the time. It’s always going to have an asterisk, you father, asterisk to the bottom. It’s going to say, you know, fermented celery juice or something like that. You know what that means? Nitrites, because there’s nitrates and celery and they add bacteria to ferment the nitrates into nitrates.
00:41:31:05 – 00:42:01:03
Dr. Michael Greger
So they’re basically adding nitrates, but just doing it in a way that, you know, they’re misinformed. The consumer by law, they have to have some form of nitrates in there. Otherwise people die botulism. They that’s why nitrites are added to processed meat. So if you’re already going to eat meat, unprocessed meat is less harmful, particularly game, wild game that’s not shot with lead ammunition tends to be extremely, extraordinarily low in saturated fat, moose, elk, etc..
00:42:02:01 – 00:42:18:10
Dr. Michael Greger
And so, look, there’s a whole spectrum, just like some plant foods are way healthier than others, right? There’s lettuce on one hand, kale on the other. You know, there’s animal foods. I have a wide spectrum as well. And we can always just try to ratchet our health a little better. Food is kind of a zero sum game, right?
00:42:18:12 – 00:42:37:08
Dr. Michael Greger
Every time we put something in our mouth, there’s an opportunity cost like a lost opportunity to put something even healthier in a mouth. So food isn’t so much good or bad as it is better or worse. So, you know, our you know, our is, you know, our eggs are good for you. Well, I mean, compare to the breakfast sausage definitely.
00:42:37:08 – 00:43:00:02
Dr. Michael Greger
Right. Compared to oatmeal, not even close. Right. It’s fish. Good for you. Well, compared to, you know, tuna fish, better baloney sandwich. But, you know, the hummus wrap would be healthier, right? I mean, so we can always just kind of, you know, move ourselves along the spectrum towards eating healthier. And it doesn’t take much, you know, you know, I don’t want people get lost in the weeds here.
00:43:00:06 – 00:43:21:16
Dr. Michael Greger
There are simple things, you know, not being obese, more and more fruits and vegetables. Non smoking can mean a decade of healthy life expectancy right on the table. And then, yes, that’ll get you 80% there. You want to work on that the on the margins on that last little bit. Then there’s all sorts of great advice we can give people.
00:43:21:16 – 00:43:32:21
Dr. Michael Greger
But let’s not you know, let’s not lose the main thrust here and that it doesn’t take much to to to to, you know, to age more successfully.
00:43:33:13 – 00:44:11:10
Nathan Crane
So one of the big issues that we run into today when comparing a plant based diet to an animal based diet and where most doctors who are promoting an animal based diet today will will tell people, they will say, look, there’s no real studies that compare like a whole food plant based diet to what would be considered from them as a healthy animal based diet, which would be a, say, grass fed beef with organ meat, game meat, as you said, and even including either fruits and fruits or vegetables.
00:44:11:20 – 00:44:33:12
Nathan Crane
And so they basically throw out the plant base and say, you know, there’s there’s no comparison there because we don’t have studies comparing those to. It’s usually compared against, let’s say, a standard American diet, which is include a lot of processed food, you know, a lot of white flour and white sugar. And so, of course, the plant based diet is going to look better and that’s got real food in it.
00:44:33:24 – 00:44:36:17
Nathan Crane
All right. So what would you say to that? You know.
00:44:36:21 – 00:44:53:03
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. Yeah. Anything looks better than anything. Gets people to cut down and donuts is a good thing. Right? Right. So so so people go into like a paleo diet or whatever or a gluten free diet or anything because out donuts, I mean, across the board, you go on to don’t eat anything that starts with a D diet. Good.
00:44:53:04 – 00:45:25:05
Dr. Michael Greger
Right. And so I mean, I think that’s that’s at that point is very well taken now for for someone to come out and say, look, there’s never been any studies showing my diet is, you know, my diet is better or worse than anything. That it’s not a it’s not a ringing endorsement. The fact that there’s no evidence, you know, the fact there’s no studies I mean, the most important thing we can do in terms of our longevity or vitality, our health is what we put at the end of our for.
00:45:25:11 – 00:45:47:23
Dr. Michael Greger
And so we need to make these decisions based on evidence. And so if you’re advocating diet that’s never been studied, that’s a concern. We do have dietary indexes where basically they take, you know, like the Harvard cohorts, hundreds of thousands of men and women, and then they rate their diet on like a like a plant based eating score.
00:45:48:05 – 00:46:06:17
Dr. Michael Greger
And so you get points to be it any plant foods, you get points deducted, eat any animal foods and then you can just see, oh, if you eat more and more plant ish or a little less plant and you can see this straight line, you know, increase in longevity, a straight line decrease in all cause mortality. The more you decrease meat, eggs, dairy.
00:46:06:18 – 00:46:31:23
Dr. Michael Greger
Now, having said that, if you there’s a healthy plant based diet index than an unhealthy plant based diet in the, you only see those remarkable benefits if you’re replacing those animal foods with healthy plant foods. If you switch from animal foods to these ultra processed crap like chips and soda and vegan donuts, you’re not going to see the benefits.
00:46:32:04 – 00:46:59:20
Dr. Michael Greger
So that suggests that the downsides of eating animal based diet is less the the detrimental effects of the animal products themselves and more the benefits of the plant foods. And so, you know, I’d rather see someone eating a diet with a lot of animal products that’s eating lots of fruits and vegetables, that’s eating lots of healthy plant foods versus some, you know, junk food, vegan somewhere who.
00:46:59:20 – 00:47:31:20
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah, they cut down on animal products, but they’re not actually eating whole plant foods. So I think that’s that’s kind of a critical point. You know, these labels like vegetarian vegan, that just as a physician that tells me what you don’t eat. I mean, do you actually eat vegetables? And in fact, when they asked people who are self-proclaimed paleo people, the biggest difference between people eating paleo and the standard American diet, I mean, you’d think, oh, you know, the stereotype over they’re eating more meat or something.
00:47:31:20 – 00:47:58:20
Dr. Michael Greger
No Sternberg diet. It’s so much meat. There actually isn’t much of a differential. What’s the biggest difference? The more vegetables people eat who claim they’re eating a period? I’d eat more vegetables. Hallelujah. Fantastic. That’s Great. Right. And so no wonder you see benefits from that kind of thing. And so, you know, basically the health of one’s diet, the way I think of it, is the percentage of your diet that’s composed of these whole healthy plant foods.
00:47:59:02 – 00:48:08:03
Dr. Michael Greger
So you’re minimizing both the processed foods and my animal foods, but you have to have those good foods in there or you’re just not going to get the benefits right.
00:48:08:10 – 00:48:28:23
Nathan Crane
Like Himalayan, for example, from Animal Foods has been to increase oxidative stress. And when they looked at studies where someone was, you know, eating quite a bit of animal products and including vegetables, the vegetables seem to reduce that oxidative stress from the heme iron.
00:48:28:23 – 00:48:54:15
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like putting avocado on a burger actually decreases the oxidative stress and inflammation, you know, adding strawberries like five large strawberries, not a lot of strawberries to like a really nasty breakfast, significantly decrease that postprandial stress. And so they were eating the same amount of crap, but just adding the strawberries on top actually significantly reduced.
00:48:54:15 – 00:49:13:17
Dr. Michael Greger
So, you know, again, it’s not all or nothing. There’s things we can do to, you know, to kind of moderate the impacts of these foods. So it’s not about, oh, never eating these foods ever again. It’s like, well, what can we do to, you know, save it for the special occasions or what else can we add to our diets to kind of mediate some of the negative impacts?
00:49:13:24 – 00:49:39:16
Nathan Crane
Yeah, I agree. I think that’s a great way to approach it. Now, you talk about soy in in the book and you know, I’ve been talking about soy for years. I’ve been a big proponent of soy. Soy very often. I always promote organic soy, of course, non-GMO, not filled with chemicals, not genetically modified. But I always and I’m sure you do as well, I always get people commenting and questioning and sending me emails.
00:49:39:16 – 00:50:11:10
Nathan Crane
Well, doesn’t soy, you know, cause men to grow breasts doesn’t increase your estrogen. It’s got phyto estrogen. You know, we know it doesn’t we know the studies show that it doesn’t. But I’d love for you to talk a little bit about soy. It’s we know it’s protective against cancer. It’s actually protective against excess estrogen. Production in the body actually does the opposite of what people think it does because it because it blocks our beta cell receptors that’s preventing things like xeno estrogens from entering into our system and causing havoc with our endocrine system.
00:50:11:10 – 00:50:24:02
Nathan Crane
You know, it’s been shown to prolong life and reduce all cause. Mortality has been eaten for thousands of years by billions of people around the planet. But I’d love for you to talk a little bit about soy and why people shouldn’t be afraid.
00:50:24:02 – 00:50:42:02
Dr. Michael Greger
Of no, no, no. You really nailed it. Right. And so, look, I mean, you can take a step back and just be like, okay, the country with the largest soy intake by far in the world, Japan, they also have the longest life expectancy, you know, some of the lowest rates of these hormone dependent cancers, etc., etc.. And you can do interventional triage.
00:50:42:02 – 00:51:16:23
Dr. Michael Greger
You can randomize people to soy or even just the soy isoflavones of other nutrients in supplement form and take out all other variables and see significant improvements in bone strength, for example, some of these other benefits. So yeah, one of the reasons why the Okinawa Japanese there are a primary source of protein was, was tofu, tofu miso two soy products and had the second longest live survival in human history, second only to the vegetarian Adventist in Loma Linda.
00:51:17:00 – 00:51:56:24
Dr. Michael Greger
Melinda And they are eating these, you know, soy based kind of meat analogs, you know, that have been put to the test against the organic grass fed meat. I mean, one of the rare studies where they did take the highest quality meat they could find and pitted it up against, you know, these beyond meat products which are processed have coconut oil, have sodium, have all the things that you would expect would be detrimental, yet still beat out the best meat that that could be found did not beat out on blood pressure because had the same sort of content but because there was lower saturated fat, got better LDL got less TMAO I’m actually a little
00:51:56:24 – 00:52:18:14
Dr. Michael Greger
weight loss has a little fiber in it. So I’m not saying that these are you know, these are the paragons of health, but I’m saying they’re a good kind of stepping stone foods, transition foods to move towards a healthier diet. And many of them are soy based. And that may be one of the reasons why the longest lived formerly study population in the world are those that eat these large amounts of soy products.
00:52:19:04 – 00:52:40:20
Nathan Crane
So the only study I’ve been able to find that actually showed a detriment from eating soy, and I think this is the one that most people probably reference. They probably hear this study or see a headline about it and think, Oh, soy is bad for you because I could only find one. And and it wasn’t that bad, but it was and I have to look it up again.
00:52:40:20 – 00:53:13:24
Nathan Crane
But it was not soy in a whole food form or tofu or tempeh or miso. It was soy protein isolate. And so it makes me think that, you know, and then when you look at all the other studies with soy that are the whole food, you always see an improved improvement across the board, right in reduction of cancer risk and all cause mortality in all kinds of benefits to the body, you know, hormone balancing, etc., but with soy protein isolate where you take it out of its original, you know, and process it heavily.
00:53:14:13 – 00:53:22:21
Nathan Crane
That makes me think of maybe that’s why they saw detriment in that study and then people just associate that with all soy is bad for you.
00:53:23:10 – 00:53:50:19
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah and when you get up to about 25 grams of soy protein isolate, you can actually get a bump in IGF one that you’d see, you know, eating using lots of meat. Mean you know it’s so funny to hear, you know, men talking about phytoestrogens when the single most potent phytoestrogens we know of on the planet is actually found in beer with the hoppin, which is a bean, which is I mean, women handling hops in the fields that actually start menstruating.
00:53:50:19 – 00:54:18:03
Dr. Michael Greger
It’s so estrogenic. Why alcoholic men get man boobs, why they form actually a female shaped pubic hair. All of these these female characteristics from the find question in beer of all manly foods yet you don’t hear people be like, oh, I don’t drink beer. Those phytoestrogens where you know, you have those anti genic effects, as you noted, with the soy foods.
00:54:18:18 – 00:54:25:10
Dr. Michael Greger
So yeah, although beer drinkers do have stronger bones and that is because of that, that estrogenic effect.
00:54:25:10 – 00:54:50:14
Nathan Crane
Yeah. And I remember because I was looking, I was trying to figure out, well, where did they even get this? Obviously, estrogen, people just assume the word phyto. Estrogen. Right. But it’s an isoflavones. It’s it’s actually protective, as we’ve been talking about. But I found a case study of a 60 year old man who they found had, you know, what do they call it when actually you start growing boobs as a man is mass gynecomastia.
00:54:50:14 – 00:54:51:12
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah.
00:54:51:13 – 00:55:12:17
Nathan Crane
Gynecomastia. And this was like one case study and they even talked about if you read the study, it was like this is very unusual. We’re not as sure it’s associated with the man eating soy and we almost never, ever have seen this before. And like, people look at one case study ever out of like billions of people and they go, oh, this causes man boobs.
00:55:12:17 – 00:55:15:11
Nathan Crane
Like, it’s, it’s pretty wild.
00:55:15:11 – 00:55:36:08
Dr. Michael Greger
Yeah. There was also there’s a case report on flaxseed oil also with gynecomastia, someone was a man was taking a tablespoon of flaxseed oil. They had these phytoestrogens called lignans from flax, which was a good for you. But at the same time, they’re taking a statin drug and statin drugs can actually cause gynecomastia tend drugs are the most commonly prescribed drug on planet Earth.
00:55:36:16 – 00:55:45:06
Dr. Michael Greger
And so anytime you see a case of gynecomastia, you always have to think, oh, okay, let’s make sure they weren’t on a standard drug is that going to do it in your thing graphically?
00:55:45:18 – 00:55:52:08
Nathan Crane
Yeah. So messages, you know, soy, preferably organic in its whole food form. Don’t be afraid.
00:55:52:11 – 00:56:19:10
Dr. Michael Greger
Of free form. Yeah Yeah. So something like tempeh, we actually see the whole soybeans, you know, is preferable to even tofu. Tofu, super healthy food, but wholesome for, like, the edamame, the fresh green soybeans in a pod. Kids love to snack on them. Yeah, lots of good ways. And helpful for cutting down on post-menopausal vasomotor symptoms like hot flushes and night sweats also can be particularly useful in the context of aging.
00:56:19:24 – 00:56:40:11
Nathan Crane
So I know we’ve only got 2 minutes left to kind of leave people with a 32nd or one minute kind of final closing message on how not to age. Obviously, I encourage people to go get the book. It’s a fantastic book. It goes deep, dove into a lot of things. We didn’t get it covered today, like microRNAs amp.
00:56:40:11 – 00:56:51:09
Nathan Crane
Okay, you know, the benefit of beans and so much more. So go get a copy of the book on Amazon any other place people should should get it or just head to Amazon. Or do you.
00:56:51:09 – 00:57:08:05
Dr. Michael Greger
Want to know? Know wherever. Yeah. Where you can go to your local public library. Yeah, right. Yeah. It’ll be out December 5th. I’m super excited for it to finally make its way out there. And we’ll have our Middle Age cookbook coming next December 20, 24.
00:57:08:22 – 00:57:17:16
Nathan Crane
Beautiful. So kind of closing message on some key to wrap up key things people should think about in improving longevity, lifespan and health span.
00:57:18:23 – 00:57:36:12
Dr. Michael Greger
You know, just important. Look, it’s your body, it’s your choice, right? You want to smoke cigarets go bungee jumping, not wear your seatbelt or whatever. It’s up to each of us to make our own decisions as to what to eat, how to live. But we really should make these choices consciously, right, educating ourselves about the predictable consequences of our actions.
00:57:36:16 – 00:57:46:02
Dr. Michael Greger
And so that’s what the book is meant to do. Here’s the pros and cons, and then it’s really up for you to decide.
00:57:46:02 – 00:57:57:13
Nathan Crane
Awesome. Michael, thank you so much for coming on the podcast again. Appreciate it, man. Time flies when you’re having fun. Thanks for sharing all this great knowledge and wisdom. Appreciate you coming on.
00:57:58:04 – 00:58:01:17
Dr. Michael Greger
Absolutely. Any time. So glad to be on. Keep up the great work.
00:58:02:01 – 00:58:12:17
Nathan Crane
Thank you. Thank you. And again, everybody, how not to age from Dr. Michael Greger. I can go grab a copy wherever books are sold and wish you so much health and happiness. Take care.
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