Head over to https://nathancrane.com/podcast/ to explore more valuable content and start your journey to holistic well-being today.

Discover the transformative power of understanding the emotional roots of illness.

Join Dr. Cathleen King and me as we delve into how unaddressed emotional pain impacts our health and well-being. Learn how our bodies signal distress and the importance of mind-body communication.

Overcome the stigma and explore solutions for depression, anxiety, and more.

Your host, Nathan Crane, is a Certified Holistic Cancer Coach, Best-Selling Author, Inspirational Speaker, Cancer-Health Researcher and Educator, and 20X Award Winning Documentary Filmmaker with Over 15 Years in the Health Field.

Visit The Nathan Crane Podcast on YouTube to watch the full podcast!

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Audio Transcript

 

(This transcript was auto-generated so there may be some errors)

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:10:20
Nathan Crane
Welcome back to the podcast today. I’ve got my friend Dr. Cathleen King here with me, the founder of Primal Trust. Cathleen, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

00:00:11:10 – 00:00:12:18
Dr. Cathleen King
Thanks, Nathan, for having me.

00:00:13:17 – 00:00:42:10
Nathan Crane
So good to see you. We just spoke not too long ago, did a great interview with you all about Primal Trust. Was really cool to see more about that. That community and program you’ve created that’s really helping people heal emotionally at a really deep level. Tell me about, you know, your experience with emotional healing. Like, why? Why is it still like taboo today for most people?

00:00:42:10 – 00:01:05:04
Nathan Crane
Why do people still avoid it so much? You know, why is there not as much support for people? Why is it still you know, you go you’re dealing with depression, anxiety, guilt, fear, resentment. You know, you go see a psychologist. They prescribe you drugs. You don’t get better. You get more depressed. And yet we have the root cause solutions.

00:01:05:04 – 00:01:26:22
Nathan Crane
Right. And we’ve had them for a long time. And yet so many people don’t know about it, don’t have access to it, think it’s taboo, whatever. And just live their lives every day, feeling that loneliness, that empty, that emptiness, that depression, that grief, that anxiety. You know, we know it’s deteriorating the immune system. We know it’s tearing down the quality of life.

00:01:27:05 – 00:01:36:12
Nathan Crane
And yet we have solutions for it right now. But what is it? People are afraid. They don’t know about it. It’s taboo. I mean, what do you think’s going on?

00:01:37:13 – 00:02:10:10
Dr. Cathleen King
I have a lot to say about this. And there’s definitely some rabbit hole answers around. Why is it why are we resistant to saying that what might be going on has an emotional root? To put it simply, we’ve been programed out of that understanding. We’ve been programed out of that innate intelligence that we have had for ages, that our bodies are our body and our symptoms are messengers to be listened to, and that there are maybe generational issues, trauma issues, etc..

00:02:10:10 – 00:02:30:00
Dr. Cathleen King
But the medical system, they have zero training in this. And so all of the education that we are receiving that the doctors have been receiving, at least, I mean, there might be getting some education now, but up until recent years they have been educated out of it. So if it doesn’t fit into that model of education, then it’s wrong.

00:02:30:09 – 00:02:56:19
Dr. Cathleen King
Or, you know, they’re afraid of getting a kickback from their colleagues. And then those of us on the receiving end of that programing. These authority figures are telling us that the solution lies in pills and these other protocols. And so, frankly, we have been deprogrammed out of our innate intelligence of how to have proper mind body communication, as well as what the root causes, which is emotional.

00:02:56:19 – 00:03:20:15
Dr. Cathleen King
It is a separation from self. I say all disease is a separation from self at its core. That’s not taught in the medical system. So what happens? What? Excuse me? What? I think happens is that because it’s not in our programing and you have a real physical issue, to say that it has an emotional cause feels invalidated and it makes you feel like you’re crazy.

00:03:20:22 – 00:03:44:23
Dr. Cathleen King
And so the medical system has the way the model is. It’s like, oh, this is a psychosomatic issue. And that has a negative label, because that’s how we have kept the power in pills and in pharmaceuticals, etc., is to make the ego of you feel shame for actually taking the responsibility. That is the core issue, which is the way that we are emotionally reacting to the world.

00:03:45:12 – 00:04:06:20
Nathan Crane
I think that’s a good kind of overview and a good starting place. I do think there’s a lot of hope. I mean, even in kind of it’s not mainstream yet, but in the conventional, let’s call it a little more cutting edge conventional understanding of kind of mind body medicine, if you will. There is the bio psycho social model of medicine.

00:04:06:20 – 00:04:41:16
Nathan Crane
Right. And it’s like I said, it’s not mainstream yet, but it is a great foundation and starting place for people to think about. There’s a simple graphic that kind of shows. So this was Wikipedia. I just want to show this graphic, right? Bio psychosocial, right. It’s the biological, the psychological and the social. Now, when we look at it through a holistic approach, which is what I do and what you do and you know, the focus I’ve done for 17 years now and learning about health and wellbeing is we add to this environmental right, relational, which fits in social.

00:04:41:16 – 00:05:07:22
Nathan Crane
But then you also have, you know, the financial side, which absolutely affects the psychological and the physical. You know, if you don’t have enough money to to take care of yourself with nutrition, that absolutely affects the biology. But then you also are struggling financially. It really hurts psychologically and emotionally, you know, which which can affect your social. You have the environmental, you have the toxins which affect the psychological and the biological.

00:05:08:06 – 00:05:26:22
Nathan Crane
You know, they have the spiritual component as well, which they don’t add in here. But this is a good framework for people to think about. And as a form of even some of conventional medicine today is is bio psycho social approach, right. Where we know even beyond that everything’s connected, you’re stressed out, it’s going to affect your immune system.

00:05:26:22 – 00:05:51:10
Nathan Crane
It’s getting downregulated. You’re dealing with resentment, you’re dealing with grief. You know, you’re talking trash about other people. You get into a little bit of a negative mindset, right? You’re focusing on grass up, if you will. You know, you’re gossiping about other people. You’re literally activating hormone response in your body that is hurting your body. And you very often don’t even know it.

00:05:51:10 – 00:05:51:22
Nathan Crane
So. Right.

00:05:52:16 – 00:06:24:02
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah. Under percent, I think a lot of times because people have come through trauma who end up getting sick, their trauma was an experience where they were invalidated at some point. Then they get these symptoms and it’s almost like if I’m saying this is due to emotional issues and I don’t have a real, you know, if we’re having them focus on the emotions versus these lab tests or whatever it feels invalidating, much like the trauma in the psyche is really resistant to continuing to feel gaslit about what happened.

00:06:24:02 – 00:06:54:08
Dr. Cathleen King
And I find one of the most important things that I do in my program is right away. How do we validate that you do have physical issues and it’s possible that emotional causes are affecting your cellular biology and resulting in true physical manifestation. So it’s the both and it’s not either or. And it’s it’s really interesting this topic I literally just had a person write to me yesterday, a high profile client and she she’s healed from doing this mind body work.

00:06:54:08 – 00:07:19:04
Dr. Cathleen King
But she has a press interview and she said, I can’t tell them that I did this mind body thing because that doesn’t go over well. She’s not very much mainstream. She’s like, How can I explain this in a way where they’re going to socially accept me? So while we are making progress, it’s still there. You know, she needs to find a way that the media is going to accept her without labeling her psychosomatic because she went through this process.

00:07:19:05 – 00:07:53:19
Nathan Crane
Mm. Yeah, that’s sad, right? It’s like we’re worried about judgment, and rightly so, because what are people going to think on the other side of it? I do see more athletes opening up about it like publicly about their depression, you know, actors opening up about it, about their drug addiction, depression, you know, suicidal thoughts like the more that we kind of mainstream it, if you will, de-stigmatize it, the more that you talk about it, the more that you share it, the more that we’re open about it, the better it’s going to be for everybody.

00:07:53:19 – 00:07:54:03
Nathan Crane
Yeah.

00:07:54:18 – 00:08:06:18
Dr. Cathleen King
So and that really was my challenge to her. So what if the truth is a little bit destabilizing? You might actually help a lot of people. So, yeah, good point.

00:08:07:18 – 00:08:39:07
Nathan Crane
Yeah, that’s so, so true. And yet we’re still dealing with censorship around the topic, which blows my mind. You know, if we mention the word suicide, we immediately get censored on YouTube and some other social media platforms or D, you know, you get a warning put on it and they don’t show it and promote it to other people, which blows my mind, because that’s a very real thing so many people are dealing with today and struggling with and we could talk about it in a positive note with all the solutions in the world and really inspire and help people.

00:08:39:07 – 00:09:01:07
Nathan Crane
And yet they still will flag it, censor it, and won’t let it get out to people, which is kind of crazy to me. I mean, I understand why they do it for our cancer content. You know, they have ties with the W.H.O. and they have ties with large pharmaceutical interests. And they’re just you know, they have ties with Mayo Clinic and things like that.

00:09:01:07 – 00:09:19:04
Nathan Crane
That isn’t about helping people heal naturally. And there’s a lot of money involved. Like, I get it. I don’t agree with it. I obviously think it’s completely wrong and should be illegal, but they do it and get away with it. But in this case, it’s very strange to me why they would censor something like that.

00:09:20:19 – 00:09:48:21
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah, it’s unfortunate that we this censorship leads to lack of resources that are there and understanding and even normalizing that process because, you know, a lot of times with suicide, it starts with ideation, which is actually pretty common. And when people realize that that can be a common thing, the shame gets released. And with that shame release, there’s often more receptivity for support through the process.

00:09:48:21 – 00:10:13:23
Nathan Crane
Yeah, and I’ve, I’ve very rarely talked about it publicly, but I did try committing suicide when I was a teenager and it’s I’ve been through that, you know, having the thoughts about it, the ideas about it, the feeling of like, what’s the purpose of living? My life should just end. I have no more reasons to live and actually slit my wrists with a knife and fell asleep.

00:10:14:07 – 00:10:38:05
Nathan Crane
And next day woke up and it was actually like a miracle. And I woke up and the I apparently didn’t cut deep enough and and, you know, basically, like start to heal over right away and then that next morning they were taking me off to jail as a 15 year old. So that was that was kind of the impetus was like I just I crossed the line too many times and for me it was just like, my life’s over.

00:10:38:05 – 00:10:56:07
Nathan Crane
And so I know what that feeling’s like and I know what it feels like to not have any purpose to live anymore and to. But we know that’s not the solution. We know there is a solution for healing, though, you know, the trauma that leads to those ideations and the trauma that leads to the attempts. We know that there are good solutions.

00:10:56:07 – 00:11:19:20
Nathan Crane
We know that everybody has a purpose to live. It’s just helping them find it. Right. And so I know how challenging to be for people out there who are tuning in, who are having maybe have had thoughts about it or who are just struggling, depressed, you know, really feeling like, what’s the point? I mean, what would you say to people who are who are having those kinds of thoughts?

00:11:20:19 – 00:11:42:06
Dr. Cathleen King
First of all, I’m so sorry that you had to have that experience. And it sounds like it’s really led to a lot of growth and the ability to serve. Yeah. You know, what I’ll say to people like that is that there are parts of us that want us to come out of our pain so badly. These they’re often called firefighter parts and internal family systems work or parts work.

00:11:42:20 – 00:12:18:05
Dr. Cathleen King
These aspects of us so much want to protect us with a in a benevolent manner that sometimes their solution is a permanent solution, so that you never have to feel that level of pain again. But it’s only one solution, and that part is only one perspective. And, you know, so those of you that are wrestling with that, that permanent solution, it’s it’s it’s tricky to help other parts come online and feel like there’s resources, there’s a way forward because ultimately what’s happening is you’re wanting to escape the pain and you don’t know how.

00:12:18:05 – 00:12:38:06
Dr. Cathleen King
And so kind of relabeling the situation of, I have so much pain that I don’t know how to escape yet. I want to find a way to relieve this pain and to know that it’s it’s actually more it’s becoming more and more normal to be in that state of suicidal ideation. I hear all the time in the chronic illness community.

00:12:38:16 – 00:13:03:17
Dr. Cathleen King
It’s happening a lot with kids like kids. It’s just and so I think in some ways normalizing that, that thought comes in, that desire comes in to release the pain is a normal and a valid desire here. And if we can bring more light to it that there are more solutions so that your psyche can see other solutions, I think it will help.

00:13:03:17 – 00:13:22:01
Dr. Cathleen King
So I think the problem is in some ways too much censorship and not enough understanding of what’s happening at a root level, that the ideation is just a firefight or part of you, often a firefight or part of you that’s just trying to find a permanent way to end the pain because it doesn’t know another way how to do it.

00:13:22:12 – 00:13:43:16
Nathan Crane
MM. That’s such a good explanation about it and the different framework to look at, different lens to look through in how to understand what we’re really going through and shift our mindset. You said, you said kids are, you know, experiencing it at such high levels, which is true. Why is that? Why do you think that is to the.

00:13:45:05 – 00:14:13:00
Dr. Cathleen King
Kids they’re losing? I think contact with their sense of self in that unlike our generation, they are so engrossed on their phones, social screen time, the sense of self versus non-self is getting really confused in their psyche. They’re not spending time literally in their body outside on the ground with their friends. They’re not in contact where they can feel literally their body and then feel the world.

00:14:13:00 – 00:14:39:09
Dr. Cathleen King
That loss of self over time leads to incredible pain in the psyche, especially for a kid that hasn’t had the neural development of their brain. They have went through the brain development of identity yet. So their identity is very, you know, it’s it’s it’s like it’s not formed. And in that lack of formation, there’s a lot more room for confusion and for inability to cope.

00:14:40:14 – 00:14:49:17
Dr. Cathleen King
So yeah, I think it’s a direct result of too much screen time and not enough contact time with parents, caregivers, loved ones to develop the identity.

00:14:49:24 – 00:15:16:15
Nathan Crane
So that’s a good point because that identity is is forming to the screen. Like, what are they watching or listening to on the screens? Right. What is it? I mean, they’re seeing all kinds of things today that are very, you know, addicting, first of all. But then like this misunderstanding between how life really works versus what I’m seeing in this fake world.

00:15:16:15 – 00:15:35:17
Nathan Crane
I mean, yeah, I grew up, you know, watching some really bad shows as a kid, and they absolutely affected my psyche. There’s no doubt about it. You know, there were shows that I watched that are just like, how could they ever allow kids to watch? How could this be marketed towards kids? These are cartoons and they’re just like some of the most disgusting.

00:15:35:17 – 00:15:49:24
Nathan Crane
Like, I would never let my kids watch that stuff. Right? But that’s what I grew up on. It absolutely affected me in a negative way because you look at my childhood in my teenage years and how I lived, and it was like, Oh yeah, all of that stuff affected me. And yet we still have that going on today.

00:15:49:24 – 00:16:16:12
Nathan Crane
You know, it’s on all kinds of shows and programs and things that kids are watching. And then parents were just like, We’re so busy. It’s like, Yeah, you’re on the iPad, whatever. Just keeping them busy. But what are they actually bringing into their subconscious? You know, ah, we check in on them, you know, every 20 minutes making sure that they’re not basically being programed with all this negativity and all these crazy thoughts and ideas.

00:16:16:23 – 00:16:40:22
Nathan Crane
Things flash so fast in these programs. I mean, it’s hard for me as a parent to to maintain what my kid watches and doesn’t, you know, and it’s like it is as a parent. It’s very challenging. And, you know, we have things we’ve implemented that help, but it’s not guaranteeing that terrible ideas and things aren’t slipping through into a subconscious, you know, I mean, it happens for sure.

00:16:41:03 – 00:16:58:23
Nathan Crane
And I’m like, okay, how do I how do I best deal with that? You know, how do I prevent that? How do I as I get rid of everything completely? Well, now, because we live in a technological world today and kids, I think they grow up without any technology or are probably going to be at a disadvantage going forward.

00:16:58:23 – 00:17:09:21
Nathan Crane
So I have access to technology, but how do we manage it and mitigate the damage that it can do and actually use it as a beneficial tool? That’s like what I’m still figuring out. You know.

00:17:10:17 – 00:17:28:14
Dr. Cathleen King
I think that if we can stay in contact with our kids and ask them, what do you feel in your body after having watched this or done this, like get them back into their body. What’s their felt sense so that they can keep coming. They can they can keep a cinematic experience in some way while being drawn into this.

00:17:28:14 – 00:17:56:20
Dr. Cathleen King
You know, the screens like after my, you know, if my daughter is like in when she’s like making videos, I’m like afterwards I’m like, what do you feel in your body if you’ve done that for 2 hours and you even find your feet? Are you feeling ramped, helping them to keep that reflection habit going in that way? I think it helps to develop their discernment so as they get into some maybe garbage material, they’re used to checking in and they can feel like, oh, that, that didn’t feel good.

00:17:56:20 – 00:18:19:10
Dr. Cathleen King
Like for me, I was just on a plane and I watched a movie that I normally wouldn’t have watched. It was, it was just a lot of action. And it messed with me for hours afterwards that I could feel during the movie. My body doesn’t like this, but I was stuck on an airplane and I just kept it went against my feeling because I’m used to doing this, being teaching this, and I think it’s just a skill.

00:18:20:10 – 00:18:32:10
Dr. Cathleen King
What do you feel like after that? What is what’s that like in your body? So it’s not about complete censorship, but also about development and discernment of how they felt and behaved hours after that experience.

00:18:32:18 – 00:18:55:08
Nathan Crane
Mm hmm. That mindfulness. Yeah, that’s so important, right? I mean, that’s how we grow as human beings. That’s certainly how I’ve grown over the years, is through that self-reflection, through the meditation to the mindfulness and continue to have to do that every day. Asking our kids to do that is such a great idea. I love that, you know, how did that make you feel?

00:18:55:08 – 00:19:06:00
Nathan Crane
Like it said, turn that off, be like just watch them and then pause and then. Yeah. How does that make you feel right now, by the way? Like just getting them in tune with their feelings, their body. That’s so smart. I love that.

00:19:06:11 – 00:19:25:02
Dr. Cathleen King
That’s kind of the premise of our whole program is we’re teaching people to feel what their activation state. It’s called the poly vagal ladder. Are you in sympathetic? Are you in dorsal begging which is shut down? Are you wanting to fight or flee? Do you feel frozen? Do you feel overwhelmed? All of that education is actually how we help people heal from chronic illness.

00:19:25:02 – 00:19:54:02
Dr. Cathleen King
But it is also how we start developing that that neurological connection back to self. So it’s just skills that you can use constantly instead of like saying, Oh, great job you did this. Ask your kid, how did it feel to do that? What was your experience? Sometimes we like to praise them for different things or whatever, but bringing it back to their experience and getting them used to having that dialog and reflection after lots of things is one way to help.

00:19:55:05 – 00:20:19:15
Dr. Cathleen King
Before I forget, I wanted to mention this because one of the things that I am seeing help with suicidal ideation is a newer technology that maybe some of you know about called transcranial magnetic stimulation. TMS These centers are popping up all over the U.S. They’re basically a brain form of biofeedback, and they are having really good success for suicidal ideation and depression especially.

00:20:20:00 – 00:20:37:19
Dr. Cathleen King
And also, I want to say that I’m not a therapist. All the things I said before were personal opinion, but I am seeing this. And if you’re somebody who’s listening or you know somebody and you feel helpless, that might be a place to start. It’s pretty passive easy to do with kids or young adults, and it may help sync up the brain a little differently.

00:20:37:19 – 00:20:42:18
Dr. Cathleen King
So different solutions arise for that pain that they’re experiencing. So I just want to say that.

00:20:43:10 – 00:20:48:04
Nathan Crane
That’s really cool. Transcranial. So what’s happening during that? Yeah.

00:20:48:20 – 00:21:13:20
Dr. Cathleen King
It’s just stimulating different parts of the brain that may be overactive or under active that they’ve studied that can help with different things like depression, ADHD, ADHD, suicidal ideation, anxiety, etc.. So the basically turning down certain dials and turning up others to have more of a whole brain, stay online to handle what’s going on in your life. And, you know, I’m sure it’s not a perfect technology.

00:21:13:20 – 00:21:33:20
Dr. Cathleen King
I don’t know about a magic bullet for anything, but I do know that it’s been pretty successful. And I was surprised reading the statistics myself and I mean, even my little town, there’s like three or four centers that are popping up in the last year, so they’re getting to be more and more popular. So some of the centers seem to be more expensive than others, and that’s the same technology.

00:21:33:20 – 00:21:36:14
Dr. Cathleen King
So shop around if one place seems really expensive, so.

00:21:37:00 – 00:21:40:23
Nathan Crane
Is this technology you can just buy and use at home or you have to go somewhere.

00:21:41:12 – 00:22:08:17
Dr. Cathleen King
That it go somewhere. It’s a little bit more high end, like they test your brain and figure out where the electrodes need to be placed. And I think you do something like, you know, maybe ten sessions, 20 sessions or something like that in a particular time. So it’s like a type of treatment, maybe takes an hour. And so, yeah, I think it’s I think it’s an interesting solution to to start to begin with, in addition to exploring, like I said, maybe parts of work therapy or something like that.

00:22:09:01 – 00:22:12:10
Nathan Crane
Have you heard of evokes evokes training? Evokes therapy?

00:22:12:24 – 00:22:16:14
Dr. Cathleen King
I just heard about that. But tell me more, because I’m not.

00:22:17:00 – 00:22:37:09
Nathan Crane
I’m just one. I know a little bit about it just because, you know, a lot of the cancer patients I’ve worked with over the years, like one of the things that I’ve heard multiple times that they felt helped them as part of their emotional healing tool kit is evokes, evokes, evokes brain training, evokes therapy. You can find therapists and go and do it.

00:22:37:09 – 00:23:09:18
Nathan Crane
It to me, the little research I’ve done on it sounds kind of similar, but they’re not, like stimulating your brain with like a device. It’s it’s literally like kind of measuring, I think, your pulse and some other things through your hand and then they’re talking through things and then it’s basically an audio signal. So it’s like it’s stimulating parts of your brain and helping to heal certain negative associations you have with people, places, things I, traumas, things in your life through like a very gentle approach.

00:23:10:24 – 00:23:17:14
Nathan Crane
It’s the best way I understand it. Apparently people have gotten great results from it. I was just curious if you knew anything about it.

00:23:18:06 – 00:23:21:19
Dr. Cathleen King
I’m going to check it out. It sounds perfect for my population too, so.

00:23:21:21 – 00:23:52:06
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Here’s an article from Harvard that’s talking about TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation. You know, right here. I mean, this is so true, right? The leading cause of disability, United States among people ages 15 to 44 is depression, even even Harvard’s, you know. Well, Adam Stern, M.D., contributing to the Harvard website, says even first line approaches such as and depressants and psychotherapy don’t work for everyone.

00:23:52:06 – 00:24:15:04
Nathan Crane
In fact, approximately two thirds of people with depression don’t get adequate relief from the first antidepressant they try after two months of treatment. At least some symptoms will remain for these individuals. I mean, look at the back, look at the look at the side effects of many antidepressants, suicidal ideation. Right. Like supposed to help you become not depressed.

00:24:15:04 – 00:24:37:08
Nathan Crane
And for some people, it makes them more depressed. It makes them suicidal. Crazy. What is transcranial magnetic stimulation? Noninvasive form of brain stimulation operates completely outside of the body and effects central nervous system by applying powerful magnetic fields to specific areas of the brain that we know are involved in depression. Approximately 56% of people with depression have tried and failed to receive benefit for medications.

00:24:37:08 – 00:24:42:09
Nathan Crane
Experience a clinically meaningful response with teams. That’s really cool.

00:24:43:02 – 00:24:43:08
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah.

00:24:43:19 – 00:25:16:02
Nathan Crane
Yeah. I’m going to check it out. That’s a great that’s a great share. Thank you. You know, depression’s a big one. People are, you know, facing today fear, anxiety. I mean, there’s so much fear going on. Right. How deeply do the things that we watch and listen to affect our psyche and impact our ability to actually feel good in our day to day life?

00:25:16:02 – 00:25:38:02
Nathan Crane
You talked about movies, action movies. You talked about, you know, we can talk about music, we can talk about, you know, anything that we’re exposed to putting into our minds, whether just on autopilot, it’s like the day I’m tired is going to on a movie or whatever, you know, or the music you listen to. Like how deeply do those things actually impact our psyche and our overall well-being?

00:25:39:03 – 00:26:03:16
Dr. Cathleen King
Well, for any of you sports fans out there, when you’re watching a favorite game, does your heart rate change at all? Do you feel any excitement when they’re about to win or whatever? If your physiology is changing at all, that means that simply by watching that experience, you are producing a biochemical cocktail in response to watching an experience outside of you.

00:26:03:24 – 00:26:33:00
Dr. Cathleen King
So 100% what we watch our brain, if we are interested in it in any way, our brain doesn’t know the difference between us doing it and us watching it. A lot of the time. On the flip side, you can use that same way that the brain works to help it to heal. And by watching positive experiences, visualizing positive experiences, witnessing positive experiences, we also produce that chemistry to heal.

00:26:33:00 – 00:27:01:05
Dr. Cathleen King
And that’s the tenet, that’s the premise behind brain retraining. We are constantly retraining our brain every day, whether you know it or not, for better or for worse. So what you’re putting in, what you’re watching is retraining your brain into having certain neural connections and certain chemical associations and output, for better or for worse. So you’ve got to decide how you want to live your life because you are constantly retraining your brain.

00:27:01:05 – 00:27:22:02
Nathan Crane
Yeah. You know, you’re excited when you’re when your team wins or is about to enter scored a touchdown or whatever. And just think about how pissed off you are. Angry or upset or yelling or whatever when they’re not winning or doing terrible. Right? Or how sad you feel like how that deeply impacts your physiology, how deeply impacts your psychology.

00:27:22:02 – 00:27:48:01
Nathan Crane
It’s it’s pretty crazy, actually. I’ve been watching a show. Have you seen This Is US now. It’s a really good show. It’s a good example of like watching something positive, but definitely affects your your physiology. I mean, every episode, I mean, I, my, my son comes up and he checks. My face is like, you’re crying, aren’t you? I’m like, Yeah, I am.

00:27:48:01 – 00:28:10:07
Nathan Crane
Cried at least three or four times. Like, I’ll have tears. But they’re very often like tears, you know, the tears of joy or happiness or tears of definitely sadness or tears of like something really special happened, you know? And it like, brings you to tears because it’s like so special and meaningful. You get that in every episode. And so it’s, it is really, really a great positive show.

00:28:10:07 – 00:28:48:08
Nathan Crane
And to your point, over the years, like, I have stopped being attracted to in watching a lot of these high action shoot them up, you know, aggressive things. Like I stopped watching horror films so long ago because I just was like, this is terrible. You know, many of the action shows, like I just don’t watch anymore. If it is, it’s super far and few between because they’re just like, once your nervous system, I think gets to a place of a, let’s say, equanimity or pretty close to equanimity, those kinds of shows and music and different things like Just Throw Me off, right?

00:28:48:09 – 00:29:04:04
Nathan Crane
Like I’m like, I don’t want to feel that way. I don’t feel like like, what is it like? I’m cringing like I was watching this new like this Godzilla show. My son wanted to watch the new one, and I was like, all right, yeah, Godzilla is cool. Whatever is like Godzilla and King Kong. And so we put it on 15 minutes in.

00:29:04:05 – 00:29:31:19
Nathan Crane
I’m like, I’m out of here, guys. Like, I can’t watch this. This is just this is awful. It’s just like blood and guts and loud and terror. And I’m just like, why? Why put myself that? This isn’t even entertaining anymore, you know? So I, you know, I have a deal with my kids, like where most movies we watch together like a movie night are going to be some like true story inspiring thing because I know how impactful that is to our minds and our bodies.

00:29:31:19 – 00:29:44:03
Nathan Crane
It’s so much better to watch something like that than some terrible horror thing, you know? Oh, you were muted there for a second. Hold on now.

00:29:44:03 – 00:29:44:21
Dr. Cathleen King
You can hear me now.

00:29:44:22 – 00:29:46:05
Nathan Crane
Yeah, yeah. Just cut out. Yeah.

00:29:46:14 – 00:30:09:03
Dr. Cathleen King
Okay. Yeah, I’m extremely sensitive as well and have zero tolerance for horror film. But yeah, I think when you do get that nervous system balance, that’s the interesting thing. You see how at one point in your life it was like slowly cooking the frog in water. Like you don’t even realize that that stuff is just massively impacting your system.

00:30:09:03 – 00:30:22:00
Dr. Cathleen King
And so when we do, you know, the approach for you is we we recommend that you don’t watch things. You don’t watch the news. You’re you’re really wanting to retrain your nervous system to hear, oh, you’re going to have to cut some of these things out of your life.

00:30:23:04 – 00:30:27:20
Nathan Crane
What are some of the things you’ve seen people? Hill When they’ve retrain their nervous system.

00:30:28:12 – 00:30:59:12
Dr. Cathleen King
In question, you know, every day I’m seeing more things that I didn’t realize. And I the main thing that we work with is usually a chronic infection like Lyme disease and the things like that. Chronic, even long COVID, we see a lot of mold issues. We see a lot of autoimmune issues. But I’ve just been seeing more and more strange things like random digestive stuff and, you know, even just wound healing, improving with nervous system regulation.

00:31:00:10 – 00:31:26:02
Dr. Cathleen King
It’s into me. It makes sense. Like, what’s the root of our bodies? Physiological functioning or autonomic nervous system is running every cell an organ in your body? The autonomic nervous system is being targeted and being put back into balance. It’s going to affect the majority of our illnesses in in usually a beneficial way. And sometimes people heal completely with nervous system regulation alone.

00:31:26:07 – 00:31:55:08
Dr. Cathleen King
Sometimes they add things in to help support their nervous system with diet and supplements and exercise. I think being able to do all of it that all of those things are affecting the nervous system. So, you know, to me, when when people get sick, I usually tell them to let their doctor have that diagnosis. Your responsibility is regulating your body, psyche, emotional, physical state, and the diagnosis is for them to figure out what maybe they can do to support.

00:31:55:20 – 00:32:09:16
Dr. Cathleen King
But it’s not for you. That’s not going to change how you’re going to heal this, because there’s a common truth about how the body heals regardless if it’s cancer, Lyme, etc. The denominator is usually a similar protocol.

00:32:11:05 – 00:32:45:16
Nathan Crane
I think the commonality there is the immune system, right? It’s whether it’s bacterial infection, it’s Lyme infection, it’s viral infection, it’s mold infection or it’s cancer, anything related like the body needs the immune system on full capacity to be able to fight these things off. And you have symptoms from these and you feel bad because it’s your immune system isn’t able to fully do its job properly and the immune system is directly affected by how we feel.

00:32:45:20 – 00:33:08:21
Nathan Crane
Right. Is directly affected by that biochemical cocktail that you spoke about, directly affected by our hormones, is directly affected by if we feel anger or peace, if we feel joy and love, or if we feel resentment and grief, it absolutely is turned on and off based on our feelings and emotions, isn’t it.

00:33:09:11 – 00:33:31:16
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah. On a percent. It’s, it’s amazing that that that truth isn’t more understood. It is in our first go to protocol when we start feeling bad. Oh, how am I feeling today and how can I shift how I’m feeling? Yeah, we’re just again, we’re not programed into that mindset. I mean, we’re getting more and more that that trend is happening.

00:33:31:16 – 00:33:41:05
Dr. Cathleen King
But I know for me, when I got sick, I was looking for a different cause. I wasn’t looking within to start shifting. It.

00:33:41:05 – 00:33:45:02
Nathan Crane
Yeah. So what what did happen to you? What did you go through?

00:33:46:04 – 00:34:15:11
Dr. Cathleen King
Well, many years ago, I started off with a parasite infection in South America. And ironically, I was going through a breakup at that time. A lot of stress and a lot of just absolute emotional dysregulation. And I became immune system went down and I ended up hospitalized and thought I was going to die on there, actually. So it was pretty serious and so was it the parasite or was it that I was in so much distress?

00:34:15:11 – 00:34:40:07
Dr. Cathleen King
My boyfriend at the time actually ended up leaving me down there and my immune system just shut off and I said, okay, I’m open host for whatever is in here. And that was the beginning of a long history of having chronic immune dysregulation and challenges. And then it eventually I never quite recovered from that, but I also never emotionally recovered, you know, for years actually.

00:34:40:07 – 00:35:01:15
Dr. Cathleen King
And so my immune system was off and I was like a workaholic. I’m not going to feel a type-A. And eventually I really crashed because my immune system can’t keep up with that pace. I was then diagnosed with things like Lyme disease, mold, toxicity, you know, viral stuff, all sorts of, you know, the list that you tend to get.

00:35:02:02 – 00:35:41:10
Dr. Cathleen King
And my digestive system was just shut down, but I was in a lot of trauma. And really to me it stemmed from relationship trauma as a child. It just got the abandonment wound was opened up and, you know, my body went into something called cell danger response. And so and this is really what we teach is that it’s really not about the Lyme, the mold, etc. Your immune system gets shut down when your body goes into a cell danger response, meaning it’s trying to protect you from emotions, toxins, etc. And it gets stuck there and gets stuck there for people especially who don’t have great emotional regulation skills.

00:35:41:19 – 00:36:06:19
Dr. Cathleen King
So instead of having toxins or pathogens come in and your immune system coming in and taking care of it and then coming back to normal, someone like me with a lot of emotional trauma and suppression, that that process gets interrupted and the cells got stuck in a danger response. They couldn’t detoxify, they couldn’t let nutrients and the immune system wasn’t getting the signaling to take care of things properly.

00:36:07:08 – 00:36:29:18
Dr. Cathleen King
And over time, you rack up more and more chronic symptoms. And the trick is how do you get your cells out of cell danger response? And that’s through multiple things cleaning up toxins, improving your autonomic function, you know, your emotional state, etc., to allow those cells to say, all right, the danger has passed, I can open up and thrive.

00:36:29:18 – 00:36:46:16
Dr. Cathleen King
The danger has passed. How has the danger passed emotionally in your life with your relationships, not just the physical symptoms, but getting that message on a deep level? And so my journey was learning how to perceive that the danger has passed.

00:36:46:16 – 00:36:51:00
Nathan Crane
Have you used Breathwork as part of your journey? Do you like Breathwork?

00:36:51:12 – 00:37:18:19
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah, it’s one of the first skills we teach because it’s one of the quickest, most direct ways of influencing our autonomic state, of getting yourself into either more of a parasympathetic state, or for some people, because they need it more of a sympathetic state. There’s a reason for both. They’re both types of states with breathwork. So it’s a crucial part of, I think, any healing program, any healing protocol is to learn how to breathe and learn how to send signals of safety through your breath.

00:37:20:10 – 00:37:46:03
Nathan Crane
Yeah, that’s like I find myself through a day, like today, for example. It’s just meeting after interview after meeting after interview. Jam packed, bump. Boom. Running from this to that to my son to this, to that to that that that. Where it’s like, oh, I have to take a deep breath, you know, between stuff just to like slow myself down and be like, okay, calm down, keep my nervous because I can get, you know, elevated, elevated, elevated, just like get intense.

00:37:46:03 – 00:38:06:19
Nathan Crane
And then, you know, your cortisol is being released, your neuro epinephrine, and you’re just like and you’re constantly in that state. It’s not fight or flight, right? It’s not freeze. But it’s an elevated cortisol state of like activity, which is, you know, dampening my immune system a little bit. And so it’s like finding that balance throughout the day.

00:38:06:19 – 00:38:30:16
Nathan Crane
Find those little windows. You know, I this thing kind of came to me naturally. Like I, I found myself doing these deep breaths throughout the day. Many, many times, just but there was something that added naturally one day. And now I do it all the time and it like it takes it to another level. I’ll just show it because it’s funny, but for some reason it works so well.

00:38:31:02 – 00:38:52:21
Nathan Crane
Maybe it makes me smile, maybe that’s why. But I go, well, I just, I do that on the out breath and it’s like I immediately feel better, you know, as I’ll be walking around the house and my kids will see me there and they’re like, smile. And I’m just like, it’s just it’s.

00:38:52:21 – 00:38:55:03
Dr. Cathleen King
An extra vagus nerve stimulation is.

00:38:55:05 – 00:39:01:22
Nathan Crane
There you go. That’s what I think it does, right? It’s like a little extra thing. Yeah So, you know, you’re like you actually know that that is.

00:39:01:22 – 00:39:15:00
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah, I mean, it’s a thing for like somatic really. So you’re adding it’s in that interesting your body showed you that it needed to let energy out of this power to maybe stimulate the complex through that. That’s great.

00:39:15:08 – 00:39:18:12
Nathan Crane
Yeah. Oh, so you’ve seen that before, like other people do that.

00:39:18:14 – 00:39:22:00
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. It’s a somatic.

00:39:22:23 – 00:39:26:19
Nathan Crane
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was the only one that was doing it. I was only crazy. Right?

00:39:26:19 – 00:39:56:11
Dr. Cathleen King
But you’re instinctively doing it, which is even. Even better. Even better. And what you’re describing, Nathan, is what I see as the perfect setup for chronic illness. Is this functional sympathetic overdrive. It doesn’t look like you’re going to be like, I’m not stressed, I’m not anxious, I’m living my passion. And you’re functionally in sympathy, headache, overdrive when there isn’t this beautiful wave through your day of activity, rest, activity, rest.

00:39:56:11 – 00:40:09:00
Dr. Cathleen King
And that constant for pedal to the metal on the gas can be a setup to causing the immune system over time to just not have the reserves to keep up and then a crash can happen.

00:40:09:00 – 00:40:31:08
Nathan Crane
So it’s so true. Yeah. You find people that are and it happened to me actually a great example of that. I was producing events years ago and just gone for months nonstop and you know, doing my passion and you know, I love producing events and I’m helping a lot of people and we get there and we’re in person and it’s, you know, there’s life changing conferences, expos and, you know, people are loving it.

00:40:31:08 – 00:40:49:03
Nathan Crane
Everyone’s saying how much their the value they’re getting out of it. They love it. And I’m like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And then by the last day, I like I just like I felt like I was going to die. I crashed and I went upstairs to the bedroom and I started having cold sweats. Like, I’ve never had them before.

00:40:49:23 – 00:41:15:15
Nathan Crane
I was getting, like, tunnel vision. I really felt like I was dying. I was like, I need something is going on here. I was, like, making peace with death. I thought I was going to die. It was really bad. And I was like, Go get Romania. And Romania comes up. He’s this kind of master herbalist. He checks my pulses is a Chinese traditional Chinese medicine herbalist and brings me up this concoction, you know, for the adrenals and for the kidneys and for all this stuff.

00:41:15:15 – 00:41:32:22
Nathan Crane
And and then I drink it and like half hour later, I come back to life. And that was like a big wake up call for me because up until that point, four years, I was living that mindset of I got to work in overdrive. 20 47i don’t care if I work 12 hours a day, 15 hours a day, 20 hours a day.

00:41:33:05 – 00:41:50:00
Nathan Crane
I’ve just got to work hard. I’ve got to provide for my family. You know, this is what a successful man does. Like, just push, push, push, push, push. And that’s what ends up happening is you crash. But a lot of people don’t learn from that crash. They come back and then they push, push, push, push, push, crash, push, crash.

00:41:50:00 – 00:42:07:17
Nathan Crane
And then push was was was cancer. Right. And that’s what we want to avoid or that’s what we want to teach how to hey, look, you don’t need to get to that point. And in fact, life is so much better if you find those moments throughout the day. I go outside between interviews, you know, I get barefoot on the grass.

00:42:07:17 – 00:42:22:15
Nathan Crane
I do a quick little meditation and qigong practice. I center myself even if it’s one minute or 2 minutes, but I do it multiple times a day. I know what I’m doing is balancing my nervous system and making sure I don’t go to the push, push, push, push, crash state.

00:42:23:12 – 00:42:46:14
Dr. Cathleen King
That’s a really beautiful practice and absolutely necessary. And, you know, it’s it’s really as simple as am I living my day like a wave of activity down, activity down. Have I done today? And if you don’t do that, that’s your answer that you’re on a set up. That might not be good.

00:42:46:14 – 00:42:52:05
Nathan Crane
What is your what have you found have been the most useful tools for you in your own healing journey?

00:42:53:05 – 00:43:19:04
Dr. Cathleen King
Such a good question. I love the morning time carving out the morning time getting up earlier than I want to have literally space where there’s nobody needing me is essential. So first of all, I’d say that that morning sacred time to find self because I do believe the root root route is a separation from self of why we get sick.

00:43:19:19 – 00:43:41:05
Dr. Cathleen King
So a self time, no kids, no work, no whatever. And then in that time I can do lots of I do lots of different things. I’m not a I don’t like the same routine. I’m kind of like chaos. So I like to change up that time. But it’s carved. So I like to do meditation, I like to do chore gong, I like to do breath work, I like to do my brain retraining, I like to do different things.

00:43:41:05 – 00:44:05:23
Dr. Cathleen King
But it’s still that time and it’s meant for me. And if for some reason I don’t get it or whatever, you know, travel, whatever it it totally throws me off the whole day. It’s like, you know, when you’ve started to watch a movie that doesn’t work, it’s it’s the same. And so I am letting myself know that I value me and I value that time with me and the practices.

00:44:05:23 – 00:44:30:19
Dr. Cathleen King
You know, you can, you can do whatever. It’s just your value and you and then the other thing is that I found when I was working a lot, I would start to go into some old symptoms again. And when I sat and talked with my body, it was saying, You’re doing it again. You are spending any time for you, you’re giving yourself all day for everyone else.

00:44:30:19 – 00:44:56:04
Dr. Cathleen King
And so I found that if I made sure I had chunks of time on my calendar that could not be scheduled just so that this part of me knows I will not cross this boundary time that’s really important. And I might have a super busy day, but I have to have some chunks of freedom that I can see so that these parts of me know that I’m not going to like throw myself under the bus to that extent.

00:44:56:13 – 00:45:17:06
Dr. Cathleen King
So making sure and in those times it could be whatever I want to do. But I’m not I’m not. It’s reserved for me. It’s really important. And there might just be a small chunk. It could be a half hour. But I know it’s it’s at least something to come back to self and to again. Like I said at the beginning of this interview, pay attention.

00:45:17:07 – 00:45:42:06
Dr. Cathleen King
How am I feeling? Do I have it to keep going today or do I need to go for a walk? It’s like a check in. How am I feeling? Making sure you’re getting a good check in? And I’d say the most recent thing I’m learning how to do is to cancel things. I had such a hard time, Nathan until recently subtracting it.

00:45:42:12 – 00:46:03:06
Dr. Cathleen King
Because you get all these opportunities, your business starts to grow. You’re meeting people, you’re like, Wow, this is great, great, great. And then and then you get stuck with things that you’ve planned and realize your schedule so full. And I felt guilty canceling and I realized I can’t, I can’t keep doing this. I can since my tank is full.

00:46:03:06 – 00:46:23:03
Dr. Cathleen King
Maybe I didn’t know that when I scheduled this three weeks ago, but it is full because too much has happened this week. Giving myself permission to cancel even really good opportunities to show my psyche and me, my little girl inside that I matter more than any opportunity that’s going to come. That’s a new phase of my entrepreneurial development.

00:46:24:06 – 00:46:47:10
Nathan Crane
That’s that’s a really empowering and challenging place to be to to say no to that opportunity. Right. No matter how successful you are, it’s like it’s early for me anyway. It’s like I’ve kind of have been the same way where it’s just like, okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then all of a sudden it’s like, where’s my time?

00:46:47:19 – 00:47:07:02
Nathan Crane
You know, like today I got seven things back to back to back to back, which I normally don’t do or don’t allow to happen on my calendar because I value my time so much as well, my personal time, you know, I make sure that I’ve got that time, you know, between morning time, afternoon time, the evening time, that’s for me.

00:47:07:02 – 00:47:28:01
Nathan Crane
That’s for my family, that’s for my exercise that’s for my morning routines. But sometimes things get scheduled where like, if I don’t have that blocked out on the calendar, then it gets filled in with something else. And that’s when it can get like, you start to cross that line, you know, because if you open up, what’s funny is I was training twice a day, right?

00:47:28:01 – 00:47:44:20
Nathan Crane
So I train a couple of hours in the morning and train a couple of hours in the evening. And then I work through the middle part of the day and like nothing got scheduled during that except my training as an athlete when I stopped training in the mornings, what ended up happening is it just got filled with more work.

00:47:45:00 – 00:48:02:19
Nathan Crane
So it’s like, I want to do something. So it’s like I just work more now, you know? And it’s like so I had to extend my morning time a little bit to be like, now I’m going to do more reading. So I do more reading, do my meditation, you know, the dogs on the bike, like spend a little bit of time with my kids at home.

00:48:02:19 – 00:48:35:06
Nathan Crane
Like I have to schedule that or otherwise it gets filled with something else that’s not necessarily supportive to me. And people who aren’t there yet, you know, might look at that and go, Oh, that’s selfish or that’s, you know, whatever. And it’s like, No, dude, that’s so that’s self love. And if you can’t do that for yourself, unfortunately, very likely you’re going to experience the ramifications of that, which very often end up with the people you and I work with are the people that have chronic diseases like cancer and Lyme disease and many others.

00:48:35:17 – 00:48:56:07
Nathan Crane
So you yourself have to become priority number one, right? You have to I was just talking with a client just before this and basically I said, well, I really want to do this program and I want to, you know, follow this and get do the coaching and all that. But I have four kids and I don’t have time.

00:48:57:03 – 00:49:15:23
Nathan Crane
And I said like, you don’t you don’t not have time to do this right? Like, if you want to be a good parent for your kids, if you want to be there for them long term, if you want to be there as a grandparent, if you want to have the energy and the clarity and the wherewithal and and actually not deal with the cancer diagnosis because their interest was prevention.

00:49:16:05 – 00:49:34:21
Nathan Crane
Like you don’t not have time for yourself. You have to dedicate this time for yourself. Otherwise you probably will end up, you know, being diagnosed because we see it. I mean, the cancer rates and the chronic disease rates are just exploding through the roof. Yes. Because of toxins, but also because of toxic stress.

00:49:35:11 – 00:49:35:18
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah.

00:49:36:02 – 00:49:46:23
Nathan Crane
So, I mean, this stuff has to be a priority for you, right? I mean, it is for you. It is for the people you teach, for your community, and they get it and they see the results from it, which is awesome.

00:49:46:23 – 00:50:11:22
Dr. Cathleen King
And it’s still very difficult to do even with every day. Every day. It is a difficult choice, especially if you have an entrepreneurial drive because you’re always getting ideas and all that kind of stuff. And it’s, it’s, it’s interesting. It’s and so I don’t I just want to normalize this. It is still difficult for me every day and I’m constantly course correcting up.

00:50:11:22 – 00:50:32:17
Dr. Cathleen King
I just went over again. I’m devaluing myself again. I got that idea of that new project and I really don’t have it to to give to it over and over. And so I think that the ability to value ourself this way again is something that we are not taught, because we’re taught to go to school and work and do all these things.

00:50:32:17 – 00:50:58:08
Dr. Cathleen King
It’s not you’re not praised in this culture for valuing self and taking care of self. You’re praised for achievement and success and things like that. And I find that if I sit with why am I not choosing myself? It’s because the instant gratification of the opportunity of helping somebody is so much more addictive to my brain than the valuing of self choice.

00:50:58:18 – 00:51:20:02
Dr. Cathleen King
It’s a it’s a delayed gratification with a much deeper long term gratification. And but we’re making choices neurologically with dopamine, with getting that quick hit. And so, you know, I just want to speak to that and normalize how difficult this is. Even though I might act like I have it together, I have to practice every day.

00:51:21:06 – 00:51:52:05
Nathan Crane
Yeah, I think on the other end of the extreme is you can also take that too far right where it’s like you forget about everybody else and everything else and you only focus on yourself. And at a time you might need that right like for a period of time. But I’ve definitely seen it taken to the opposite extreme even in my own life, like going down this, you know, the spiritual rabbit hole and then getting to a point where it’s like, well, then I had no money, no prospects, no opportunities, and I was only focused on myself.

00:51:52:05 – 00:52:05:17
Nathan Crane
And then I was struggling in a lot of ways and like I needed it for a while. But if you get stuck there, you know, and don’t and don’t find the balance, then life can definitely be too extreme that way.

00:52:06:06 – 00:52:34:17
Dr. Cathleen King
Yes, that’s so true. And one thing that I see with that similar path is that sometimes with chronic illness, we become obsessed with our self care and it becomes this illness. Identity is like being lived all day long with a million tools, protocols and things, and they’re not actually like serving again. And so there is that extreme and I was in that extreme as well as kind of the spiritual bypass phase.

00:52:34:17 – 00:53:08:01
Dr. Cathleen King
And again, though, it’s it’s just it’s an out of balance thing and it’s something to be looked at. And and we do need both serving the world. And so from speaking more to my newer face, which is the entrepreneur that hasn’t been able to say no very well and has a million ideas and all that. But I’ve been on the other end and it’s like, yeah, I, for me it’s been like a form of, of greed in different ways, that greed with self-development, greed with spirituality, agreed with opportunity.

00:53:08:01 – 00:53:22:05
Dr. Cathleen King
And I, I, and I don’t mean that like, I don’t mean negative in a way, but it is kind of a neurological grasping that we, we get caught in, in different ways that need to that needs to come into balance.

00:53:22:18 – 00:53:30:07
Nathan Crane
Yes. That sense of like, I need more, I need more and more, I need more. And it’s usually we’re trying to fill something in ourselves. Yeah, right.

00:53:30:07 – 00:53:32:17
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:53:32:18 – 00:53:49:16
Nathan Crane
Yeah. I need more personal development. I need more self-care any more. I need more opportunity, I need to help more people. And it’s like all of that’s fine in balance, right? When it like, overtakes us and becomes stressful in one way or another. No, I can’t do that. I have to take care of myself right now. Nope. Leave me alone.

00:53:49:16 – 00:54:18:02
Nathan Crane
Like it’s not. You know, my cancer needs this right now, and. And it becomes an identity and it becomes stressful. And then you’re actually doing the opposite of what you’re trying to do. So I think that awareness is important for all of us to go, okay, where am I at with this? In my finding balance, in how I’m treating myself and taking care of myself and being of service to others, because we know the only true joy and fulfillment in life actually comes out of serving others.

00:54:18:02 – 00:54:41:22
Nathan Crane
Like true fulfillment. Yeah, but you can’t serve others if you’re not also taking care of yourself. Yeah, you know you can’t truly serve others. You know, it’s like you can’t give love to someone else. If you don’t love yourself, you can fake it, but you can’t give true, true love to someone else. And like, really give that unattached love unless you can really feel that for yourself.

00:54:41:22 – 00:54:52:12
Nathan Crane
So we need both, you know, I think we need both anyway. So you’re your program Promo Trust talked a little bit about that because I think it’s pretty awesome what you created.

00:54:53:10 – 00:55:15:21
Dr. Cathleen King
Thank you. Well, I created the program that I wish I had when I was on my healing journey. And it’s a program that has an academy aspect to it. So a lot of learning about chronic illness, psycho neuro immunology. So the danger response, why people get sick, how the nervous system works, you know, it’s kind of like a mini college course, all a nervous system mastery.

00:55:16:05 – 00:55:48:16
Dr. Cathleen King
And then we also have a community which is basically live daily classes, usually several times a day of support of how do you regulate your nervous system? We practice together, have things like sound healing and journaling and movement classes and qigong and all sorts of things. And so it’s a combo, it’s a combination platform. All online were world worldwide in over 60 countries where you’re learning how to get out of cell danger response, how to self regulate your own biology so that your body can help itself heal.

00:55:49:05 – 00:56:25:00
Dr. Cathleen King
Some people work with providers alongside this process. Some people are literally just doing this process depending on the resources. And the cool thing is, is that because there is a community piece and it’s huge, we really have a lot of support. I think it’s really been quite successful. We have people healing from all sorts of things and it’s a lot bigger than I ever thought it was going to go and I think because it’s what the world needs, it’s a paradigm shift in how you approach chronic illness with coagulation, with that community, with the resources that we’re all needing.

00:56:25:00 – 00:56:39:15
Dr. Cathleen King
And so, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s just been great. It’s been an honor to be able to lead it, to create it. I’ve got several people beside me that help me lead it now. And yeah, that’s what Primal Trust is in a nutshell.

00:56:40:02 – 00:57:05:23
Nathan Crane
That’s awesome. I mean, what you’ve created, basically, just organically that has has changed thousands of people’s lives is so cool. And how it’s how you told me it’s just basically grown. I mean, mostly from word of mouth, like you didn’t do like paid marketing and all these big campaigns and all this affiliate stuff. Like, I mean, to have thousands of members join a program like yours organically and from word of mouth is such huge testament to how powerful it actually is.

00:57:06:09 – 00:57:08:07
Nathan Crane
Oh, yeah, it’s it’s amazing.

00:57:09:12 – 00:57:23:05
Dr. Cathleen King
Yeah, I wasn’t I had zero business training and I think that served me because I just created kept creating what did people need and it made it I think it made a good product because I wasn’t worried about how to sell it.

00:57:23:05 – 00:57:47:16
Nathan Crane
That that’s awesome. That’s a good approach. That’s a good way to do it. So and that’s what primal trust dot org is that where people can. Yeah Primal trust dot org. Awesome. Well Cathleen thanks so much for coming on the podcast was awesome chatting with you the time flew by like it felt like it was like 10 minutes.

00:57:47:16 – 00:57:49:04
Nathan Crane
Yeah. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

00:57:49:17 – 00:57:54:00
Dr. Cathleen King
Thank you, Nathan. It was such a rich conversation and I appreciate you having me.

00:57:54:06 – 00:57:56:10
Nathan Crane
Absolutely. My. Thanks.