In today’s video, we sit down with Rob Besner. Rob Besner, PSc.D, the Chief Science Officer, device developer and cofounder of Therasage, Premier Infrared Healing Products, recognized as the leader in integrated infrared technology.
Rob Besner, PSc.D, CEO and Chief Science Officer of Therasage, has always been an advocate of natural health and wellness. After graduating from Boston University in Pre-Med, Engineering, Psychology and Business, he continued onto post-graduate work at Case Western Medical School and Holistic Medicine. After many years of illness, Mr. Besner’s teenage daughter was diagnosed with Lyme Disease. This began his mission to find alternative, holistic and homeopathic avenues of treatment. He discovered the natural healing effects of Infrared frequencies and began developing specialized devices and applications to help his daughter with her health challenge. When he saw the positive results, he felt compelled to share what he had discovered, and formed Therasage, now recognized as the leader in integrated Infrared technology. Therasage has built a reputation with the healthcare community and mainstream public by educating and creating special cutting-edge applications and protocols, unique from the rest. A Professor for the World Federation of Chinese Medicine Societies, annual contributor at the World Committee on Infrared, a member of the Education Committee of the prestigious Hippocrates Health Institute, a presenter at many Medical, Integrative, and Anti-Aging Health Conferences, as well as an invited contributor on many podcasts online summits, on-air radio, and TV health shows around the world, best-selling author, and considered a leading scientist in the field of Integrated InfraRed technology. Besner continues to research and develop new applications to bring the power of healing with nature to the world.
Your host, Nathan Crane, is a Certified Holistic Cancer Coach, Best-Selling Author, Inspirational Speaker, Cancer-Health Researcher and Educator, and 20X Award Winning Documentary Filmmaker with Over 15 Years in the Health Field.
Today’s podcast is focused on Infrared Therapy, Chronic Pain, Therasage and more. Visit The Nathan Crane Podcast on YouTube to watch the full podcast!
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Audio Transcript
(Note that this transcription was auto-generated so there may be some errors)
00:00:09:09 – 00:00:39:24
Nathan Crane
So, Robbie, one of the reasons, many reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast is your background and your knowledge and experience with healing modalities like red light therapy and infrared therapy, for example. And I want to get into the science of this and kind of dive deep down the healing mechanisms with you and as well as, you know, get to know you better and our audience get to know you better and the work that you do.
00:00:40:12 – 00:01:09:09
Nathan Crane
But I. So little background I. I found out that I had some major tears in my shoulder a few months back and I think it was from a skiing accident a couple of years ago. And I was weightlifting just like normal every day. And all of a sudden I started getting pain in my shoulder and weightlifting, doing Olympic weightlifting like snatches and clean and jerks and things like that.
00:01:10:05 – 00:01:30:03
Nathan Crane
And I’d been doing that, you know, last couple of years. No major problems, no pain. And I was just lifting like normal. Nothing really happened specifically. And then all of a sudden I woke up the next morning is like I could barely move my shoulder, got some blood flow, kind of felt better. I lifted again that night. It was kind of the same or worse.
00:01:30:03 – 00:02:01:18
Nathan Crane
The next day I kind of, you know, stubbornly continued through that for probably four or five days until it was like, all right, this is getting worse. It’s not staying the same or getting better. I immediately went to go see a party, started getting some work done, some physical therapy, and then actually within about two within about three weeks, we got the pain down pretty quickly and some more functional mobility, mostly doing physical therapy and a bunch of other stuff we’ll talk about to infrared sauna and other things.
00:02:01:18 – 00:02:39:10
Nathan Crane
But but I went and got an MRI, and the MRI showed that I had a bunch of stuff going on. So rotator cuff tears, partial thickness, low grade tears, an intermediate tear birsel tears like all kinds of stuff. And it was a kind of a pretty serious a pretty shocking thing, you know. Have you ever been through like a kind of serious injury like that?
00:02:39:10 – 00:03:09:09
Rob Besner
I want to say yes, but not quite. I wouldn’t call it serious, but I did when I was younger, maybe 35 or 40 years ago, I had a an incident, a water skiing incident that the guy driving the boat took off before I was ready and basically hyperextended both of my shoulders. And it wasn’t fun. Oh, yeah. And I lived with it basically for almost 30 years.
00:03:09:09 – 00:03:27:24
Rob Besner
First, the first thing I did was did the traditional route, went to an orthopedic. And of course, you know, in today’s world, when you go to a surgeon and you go for it, what do they do? They do surgery, right? So, you know, it’s kind of like that’s all they know. He’s schedule me within a week. He had me on the tech.
00:03:27:24 – 00:04:02:10
Rob Besner
He wanted to have me on a table again. And this was 35, 40 years ago. Nathan and I, I’m an alternative, natural, integrative, functional sort of healer. I take that approach to health care. And so back then, acupuncture wasn’t legal in the country, in our country. But through a few friends, I got introduced to a guy who just came over from the Philippines and was doing treatments in his apartment, What country He was from the Philippines.
00:04:02:16 – 00:04:03:21
Nathan Crane
Where? No. Where were you living?
00:04:04:21 – 00:04:08:10
Rob Besner
Oh, I was here. And actually I was living Midwest. Like Chicago.
00:04:08:16 – 00:04:11:20
Nathan Crane
Acupuncture wasn’t legal. This was 30 years ago.
00:04:12:06 – 00:04:14:18
Rob Besner
Oh, yeah. Imagine that. Yeah.
00:04:15:05 – 00:04:16:19
Nathan Crane
I know. I didn’t even was not.
00:04:17:05 – 00:04:18:17
Rob Besner
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Western legal.
00:04:18:17 – 00:04:23:09
Nathan Crane
There was just, there was a just in that state or is that nationwide.
00:04:23:11 – 00:04:26:14
Rob Besner
No, nationwide. It wasn’t legal in the country.
00:04:26:14 – 00:04:28:00
Nathan Crane
Oh my God. I didn’t realize.
00:04:28:00 – 00:04:59:14
Rob Besner
Yeah, and it sounds funny because now like what we take for granted, you know, back then, you know, it wasn’t. But. And I suppose I might have been taking risks per say, but I did want to seek some kind of alternative way to try to heal before I went under the knife for traditional surgery because they were talking about putting in a plate and a screw and, you know, all the stuff that I’m sure you’re well aware of with your own your own story, what you just talked about.
00:05:00:09 – 00:05:27:02
Rob Besner
But I but, you know, now I’m a little bit stronger with my feeling that traditional allopathic approaches to medicine and the protocols, I just don’t take that for granted. You know, I’m not the one that because the doctor says it, I do it, I question it. And what happened was I was actually working with some alternative, like to go shiatsu and alternative healers.
00:05:27:24 – 00:05:38:03
Rob Besner
And they recommended that I go see this guy. And in two treatments, two treatments, I was completely healed of acupuncture. Yeah. Wow.
00:05:38:04 – 00:06:05:19
Nathan Crane
So it was just I mean, the explanation for that would be, you know, it had turned into an energetic block in your shoulder, right? I mean, it was a long standing energy. I mean, a long standing injury that probably actually healed itself. But the energy in that area was the trauma was still there. Right. Because this would acupuncture does is it helps to open up the energetic meridians in the body and help release what we could call blocked energy.
00:06:05:19 – 00:06:15:00
Nathan Crane
So do you think that’s what happened? It basically you just had that traumatic injury, traumatic energetic blockage that was still there and the acupuncture opened it up and then yeah, it was.
00:06:15:04 – 00:06:58:12
Rob Besner
Pretty much I love the way you describe that just now, because most people even listening, if they just tune, then it’s an alternative way. The Eastern culture for 8000 years have been practicing noninvasive forms of healing and of course, acupressure. Acupuncture is one of those. And and we’ve accepted it now. In fact, they use acupuncture in, you know, brain surgery so that the patient is basically very aware of what’s happening while they’re working on them, but is completely free of pain and any kinds of challenges because of the same blocks that you’re talking about now they’re imposing can block as opposed to releasing a block of energy.
00:06:58:12 – 00:07:21:02
Rob Besner
Right. And so the Western approach is, okay, let’s go in with the surgery. We’ll play in a play, then we’ll set you up. And so you’re going to maybe have a star, maybe some adhesions, which I think is one of your challenges. And then but they don’t really address the energetic pathway. So we deal with tissues, the internal and external tissues.
00:07:21:02 – 00:07:48:03
Rob Besner
We deal with arterial and venous being blood flow. But Western approach, even today, doesn’t really truly embrace the energetic systems. And so I don’t believe that you can truly heal unless you unless you get that. And so when you do a surgery, you’re actually severing maybe tissue and muscle and then they sell you back up. And so the tissues are mending.
00:07:48:18 – 00:08:25:05
Rob Besner
But what about the when that when it did that that surgery, what about the way that they cut through that energetic pathway? And then what does that what other areas does that enter that block now that it’s severed, where does that go to other than the localized challenge that you know, that you’re talking about? It’s not just that because that channel might connect to, you know, like your your thymus or other parts of your organs that are now somewhat inhibited from their full ability to for your body function because that energetic pathways to up.
00:08:25:16 – 00:09:07:08
Nathan Crane
So on that note, I want to share something really fascinating because I think that that what you just shared is like incredible. And I’ve seen it firsthand with an ancient healing, ancient Chinese healing modality called Qigong, which I know you know about, something I’ve been practicing for a few years now. And I actually studied with a master Qigong teacher in Santa Fe for a couple of years and spent time at his retreat and doing Qigong every day and watching people come into the Qigong retreats with all kinds of crazy and just chronic and debilitating painful chronic health issues, including one.
00:09:07:08 – 00:09:30:18
Nathan Crane
I did a documentary about Tom Lowe’s work, Tom Lowe’s work, which is on YouTube for free. Anyone can go watch it. Interviewed him, his daughter, his people who knew him, his colleagues, his life coach at the time where he was basically on his deathbed, multiple chronic diseases had a ton of issues going on, cancer, all kinds of things.
00:09:30:18 – 00:09:55:05
Nathan Crane
Basically was on his way out of this life in a wheelchair, rolled up in a wheelchair to Qigong Qigong retreat for his life was like his last resort. It was like, Well, this doesn’t work. I’m dead, you know? And he had already had plates put in his lower vertebra, an entire metal plate. And the doctor had says was another, you know, physical thing that happened to him.
00:09:55:18 – 00:10:20:11
Nathan Crane
And his doctor told him, you will never bend properly again or twist twist your spine around or anything like that. You just you can’t do it. You’ll never do it. Just let it go. And one of the one of the movements in this form of Qigong wisdom, healing qigong taught by Ming Tang Master being tongue gu is called spinal bone marrow, where you hold your arms like this and you twist your spine all the way around.
00:10:20:22 – 00:10:41:22
Nathan Crane
And so here he is in this Qigong retreat, in all this pain, twisting his spine when the doctor told, you know, never do that again, you get plates in your spine. And he’s just dealing with so much chronic I mean, acute pain doing that. And what he what he goes on described to me was it was like the fifth or sixth day of retreat of doing this.
00:10:41:22 – 00:11:05:20
Nathan Crane
He just really committed to it because that’s part of the Qigong practice is like enter into the discomfort like except to discomfort. Don’t fight it, don’t run away from it, bring the energy. Because the qigong is all about energy medicine, connecting to the energy in your body. Very much like acupuncture, but without the needles. Right. It’s it’s a a therapy kind of energetic practice.
00:11:06:18 – 00:11:29:19
Nathan Crane
And it’s like the fifth or sixth day he was doing. And all of a sudden he had this huge like he heard this huge pop kind of this explosion. And he said he just felt this massive release of energy leave out his spine, out his body. And from that moment forward, he was pain free. He could twist left, right, no pain, no problem from that day forward.
00:11:30:11 – 00:11:51:20
Nathan Crane
And here I am interviewing him years later. Completely changed, totally healed, got off all of his meds, all his pain meds. He’s got, you know, and he was on like a dozen medications on multiple hardcore pain drugs. You know, he had did the he had done the was the big pain clinic in California is at the Harvard Pain Clinic or the Mayo pain.
00:11:51:22 – 00:12:20:21
Nathan Crane
There’s a really, really prestigious like pain clinic university in California. He had done that. I can’t remember. It is its moment and got off and through Qigong, out of all of his drugs and all of his diseases, eventually went away, all of his pain and I was swimming with him. We went swimming in the pretty cold ocean in the winter in northern California, in San Francisco, and we’re out there swimming together.
00:12:20:21 – 00:12:41:00
Nathan Crane
He’s swimming, he’s surfing again. He’s, you know, doing all this stuff that doctor said you’d never do. And it was, to your point, the surgery that had fuzed all that, and it cut, you know, into all the meridians and blocked all that energy. He released that energy through an energy practice and became pain free, which I think is just incredible.
00:12:41:00 – 00:12:42:22
Nathan Crane
Just fascinating that that’s possible.
00:12:43:08 – 00:13:09:09
Rob Besner
Right. Well, you got to you certainly when you’ve experienced that. But when people listen to the story, you can get closer to appreciating that there there are other methods for healing or in health care than just what we’ve been taught or programed to believe, which is that Western model, medical model. So I, I was never traditional in that way at all.
00:13:09:13 – 00:13:34:00
Rob Besner
And so, you know, to me, hearing what you’re saying is something that I basically live and breathe in my own practice here and and have for, you know, 25 years plus plus my own own personal approach, which is basically almost out of the gate, you know, from a little guy. But so but it is interesting. It’s simply interesting.
00:13:34:00 – 00:14:06:01
Rob Besner
And it it is interesting to see the evolution and the merging of this east versus west. And actually, it’s not just the the the Asian block approach, but the Indian East Indian approach, too, has a dynamic that’s very similar. Their Vedic approach to health care is also pretty interesting to me. So I study all this stuff. I think that we’re probably pretty eclectic in our approach because I don’t think there’s any one answer.
00:14:06:02 – 00:14:26:07
Rob Besner
The idea is that it could be a combination, and even though, you know, maybe your health challenge is complex and the body is complex, general, that we’ve experienced is that the road back is relatively primal, like relatively simple. But you have to really kind of almost start from the ground up in order for you to make sure that you’re have a good foundation.
00:14:26:08 – 00:14:59:08
Rob Besner
And then the truth be told, the body does all the heavy lifting. And and so I think that’s the shit mind mindset shift that I’m feeling is subtly occurring these days. And, and maybe it was promoted through the whole COVID experience because we’ve got disconnected and we’ve had a lot of time to think about things. We’ve had a lot of time to appreciate maybe what we do have, what’s missing, maybe how broken the Western model is, Health care is, and I don’t come from a place of judgment.
00:14:59:08 – 00:15:25:05
Rob Besner
By the way, in this discussion. I think there’s a place for that Western model, but it’s just not my first go to. And and so so I think there’s been an emerging really shift in consciousness, in my opinion, an awareness as to maybe an opening up of of a mind to knowing that there might be other ways, other roads to roam, other ways to heal.
00:15:25:13 – 00:15:42:07
Rob Besner
Yeah. And then ultimately, I really seen some miraculous shifts and healing from people that, you know, same story. You’re never going to walk again, you’re never going to breathe again. You’re never going to eat again. Like whatever you get, whatever you’re doing, you’re never going to do it again, you know?
00:15:43:04 – 00:16:01:03
Nathan Crane
And I those are those are I mean, those are those are words of of death. Those are death words. I mean, you know, I’ve been working with cancer patients for over a decade, and when they’re given what I call a fake expiration date, which is a prognosis, you have six months left to live. If you was just talking to Bill Bevins.
00:16:01:03 – 00:16:26:04
Nathan Crane
Yes. Yesterday, day before he’s going to be coming out on our podcast, he was told, you know, stage four colon cancer metastasized to the liver, lymph nodes. You know, if you do nothing, you’ll be dead in six months. If you do well, we recommend surgery, chemotherapy, radiation. You have less than a 20% chance to make it to five years.
00:16:27:12 – 00:16:48:14
Nathan Crane
That’s what they told him. This is what most people hear in that case, Right. Like these are disease or death. It’s a death sentence that you’re given. Hey, well, here I am interviewing him 22 years later, and he chose a very unconventional path towards his healing. So anyone who wants to hear that incredible story, go listen to the whole thing, because it is truly, truly incredible.
00:16:49:21 – 00:17:21:06
Nathan Crane
It’s on this podcast as well. But to your point, you know, conventional medicine has a purpose. If I get in a car crash, break my spine, get stab to get a limb cut off or some, you know, some acute situation, like get me into the hospital as quick as possible. But if it’s cancer, diabetes, heart disease, chronic inflammation, neurodegenerative disease, any of these things like the honest God truth is conventional medicine is my absolute last approach.
00:17:21:06 – 00:18:05:02
Nathan Crane
Now you have a ten centimeter tumor blocking your colon and you can’t get feces out of your body and you’re at risk of dying from that. Hey, I would probably get that surgically removed as quickly as possible, Right? Like that would probably be a good idea. Certain situations like that. But when it comes to chronic health conditions, which are primarily diet and lifestyle related, as we know, you know, I truly believe in my research has led in the last 17 years to live a very holistic life and choose a very holistic and natural approach, because these are what I consider diseases where we are out of alignment with nature and out of alignment with our
00:18:05:14 – 00:18:26:13
Nathan Crane
with our innate natural healing capabilities. So why would I go to some manmade, chemically derived drugs that have massive side effects to try and put a Band-Aid on something that has been caused by diet and lifestyle? Why don’t I just clean up diet and lifestyle? Well, that’s challenging and it’s hard and it takes work and it takes time and it takes education.
00:18:26:13 – 00:18:58:08
Nathan Crane
And, you know, we’re kind of conditional. We want this blue magic pill to solve everything for us at the expense of whatever other crazy side effects that it brings. Right. So all that to say, I want to go back to my shoulder because it leads me into it leads us in the conversation of talking to you about red light therapy and infrared, because I used one of your products to help heal my shoulder.
00:18:58:08 – 00:19:28:14
Nathan Crane
And so this is what’s really fascinating, at least I believe, and the science I’ve seen so far, that it definitely contributed to healing my shoulder. So I’m just I’m looking at my MRI’s. I got to memorize three months apart. So basically skiing accident, couple of years back fell on my shoulder. I think that’s when all the major damage happened because I remember for like a period of maybe a couple of weeks or so, like I couldn’t move my shoulder, I couldn’t sleep.
00:19:28:14 – 00:19:47:22
Nathan Crane
I, I just had so much pain back then. I didn’t get an MRI. I didn’t really get it checked out. I didn’t really I was just like, oh, it’s just a little injury. It’ll he’ll give it some time, take some herbs, do some, you know, some natural healing stuff. It’ll heal on its own. I think what happened is I didn’t do enough like physical therapy.
00:19:47:22 – 00:20:08:11
Nathan Crane
I didn’t. And I got back into, like, training and where these, you know, tendons can take months to heal and sometimes they don’t get as much blood flow as other areas of the body. So they, you know, can have a hard time, harder time healing, for example. And I got back into like weightlifting and CrossFit and training probably too soon.
00:20:08:11 – 00:20:19:02
Nathan Crane
Didn’t let them heal and had been training through, you know, these stairs for probably two and a half years. And not even realizing it because when it finally.
00:20:19:10 – 00:20:20:04
Rob Besner
Very common, by.
00:20:20:04 – 00:20:21:01
Nathan Crane
The way, is it.
00:20:21:15 – 00:20:21:23
Rob Besner
Yeah.
00:20:22:13 – 00:20:45:03
Nathan Crane
So I think that’s what happened and by the time, you know, like I started feeling the pain, it was like something kind of went over the edge, right? Or the tears got bigger or something new happened or whatever. So, you know, the first MRI. So I went in. So doing P.T. for a few weeks, pain is significantly reduced, almost I mean, almost gone, actually.
00:20:45:07 – 00:20:59:04
Nathan Crane
A lot of the pain, not all of it, but a lot of the a lot of that acute pain was gone and I was able to actually do quite a bit more with it. I went in to get an MRI just to see. I was like, you know, had to wonder if I got a little tear in there and be a little mindful with this, find out what’s going on.
00:20:59:16 – 00:21:15:04
Nathan Crane
And I’m sitting there getting ready to jump into a CrossFit class and I get my MRI result back in. Like that one was like a really shit hole. Shoulder heavy workout was would be like a bunch of pull ups and push ups and all kinds of stuff. And I’m like, I really want this result back before I jump into this class.
00:21:15:04 – 00:21:40:13
Nathan Crane
I’m like bugging the doctor every day. Back to your point earlier, to had this happen 15 years ago and I went in and a surgeon said, Hey, we got to operate that. And I like I probably would have followed down that path and then ended up like my father, like many other people that I know who get rushed into surgery, who end up having a second surgery, a third surgery, a forced surgery and chronic shoulder problems the rest of their life.
00:21:41:00 – 00:22:00:06
Nathan Crane
Right. I’ve seen it so more often than not when it’s joint surgeries. So one, I’m really glad it didn’t happen then. It happened now where I actually I went to my chiropractor. I said, hey, can you write me a prescription for a MRI? I want to see what’s going on with my shoulder. What’s going on? Yeah, okay. Yeah.
00:22:00:07 – 00:22:20:04
Nathan Crane
He wrote me a prescription. I went into an MRI place, got my own MRI, got my own results back, and dealt with it myself. Instead of having a surgeon or somebody else, you know, do it and tell me, Yeah, we got to do surgery, because that’d be the first thing they’d say with this. So anyway, let me read this real quick because this is really fascinating.
00:22:21:04 – 00:22:52:23
Nathan Crane
Let me find the first one. So that was this was 1013. Okay, So this was the first one. So intermediate grade, partial thickness, articular surface tear. So intermediate grade tear on the super spinny is tendon. So intermediate grade tendon tear, which is, you know, pretty serious. It’s not separated, but intermediate grade is it’s not a low grade. Then a separate low grade versus surface tear on the super spur.
00:22:52:23 – 00:23:20:04
Nathan Crane
Nate, is that a low grade longitudinal tear on the inferior Nate is tendon and then a tear on the inferior portion of glenoid glenoid labrum. The labrum labral tears are actually very common in athletes and then long head bicep tends to divide us, which is basically like tendonitis and then traces of acromegaly sub deltoid bursitis. So I got this on my phone as I’m about to jump into a class, I’m like, okay, not today.
00:23:20:18 – 00:23:21:20
Rob Besner
Yeah, right. They give it.
00:23:21:21 – 00:23:40:01
Nathan Crane
Away. I did my back squats because, you know, I didn’t really bother to take my shoulder to do any of that. But then I was like, All right. I got like four tears and tendonitis, intense in the virus and bursitis. And I was like, All right, I got to really, really understand this better. So Matt And that was my P.T. showed him all this.
00:23:40:12 – 00:24:03:00
Nathan Crane
What was really cool was we got on P.T., like I said, right away, I’ve been doing infrared sauna, I’ve been doing ice baths, a lot of nutrition and herbs and natural anti-inflammatories working on good sleep, you know, 7 to 9 hours of sleep a night. I ate a primarily organic, whole food plant based diet, so a lot of lower inflammation foods.
00:24:03:20 – 00:24:15:23
Nathan Crane
So a lot of things I’ve been doing. But in addition, I started adding in your you have a red light therapy with infrared pad, right? Healing pad. What is it called again.
00:24:16:17 – 00:24:17:18
Rob Besner
We call it a try light.
00:24:18:01 – 00:24:35:13
Nathan Crane
The try light. So I start I just it was perfect. So I just wrap it around my shoulder at night, just turn it on and like, I started with just like the 20 minute session as I lay there and read at night and then I take it off. And then later on I just started like turning it on and leaving it on all night while I was sleeping.
00:24:36:03 – 00:24:39:14
Nathan Crane
You may have some you may say that’s good or not good, but you can.
00:24:39:16 – 00:25:04:12
Rob Besner
Totally, totally good. But in just your story is so interesting to me because your decisions are in your intuitive decisions, like your your intellect really took you to the right places, you know? And that’s interesting to me anyway. And what you’re describing, by the way, Nathan, is very common because you know what program probably in gym class, no pain, no gain.
00:25:04:12 – 00:25:34:16
Rob Besner
And. Right. And certainly if you’re lifting and you’re an active body sculptor and doing all the spinning and so forth, you you’re accustomed to, you know, to working with pain and discomfort. It’s part of the package. Yeah. We have a little different approach because we were trying to teach people to listen to what that doctor in yourself tells you when you had enough and then, you know, respond appropriately so.
00:25:34:23 – 00:25:55:08
Rob Besner
So there is kind of middle ground. Yeah. In order for you to gain and make any gains, you do actually have to push yourself to the envelope. And sometimes you go a little bit too far and that’s when you pay a little price. But but if you’re in it long enough, then you realize that you you know, that you understand how to moderate it.
00:25:55:08 – 00:26:25:08
Rob Besner
And also the rest that may take if you do a little further so that you do to recover. And so yeah the that what you describe that Twilight is is really actually a very interesting technology that I that I developed. And it’s unique because it uses light emitting diodes LEDs. But historically in the LED the industry there’s they are called monochromatic meaning a single diode with a single frequency.
00:26:25:20 – 00:26:41:13
Rob Besner
And I looked at the physics and I said, why is that? You know, like, is that an industry? Norm is there, you know, and that’s sort of turned out to be it’s like one guy somewhere decided to make it like one ball because he’s in the bulb business, you know, And so he wanted to make a lot of different.
00:26:41:21 – 00:27:09:24
Rob Besner
And so that’s what he did. And what I decided was no less cherry pick three very unique frequencies and build it into one diode. And so then when I power that diode, I’m actually delivering three times the amount of photon energy, light energy to the area that you want to heal. And so it’s really been quite amazing the results that we’re seeing from that simple application.
00:27:10:23 – 00:27:36:21
Rob Besner
And you, you know, from pain and acute injuries all the way to now we’re doing TBI studies with pretty Phantom’s neurosurgeon and Tyler, Texas has a contract with the NFL. And generally when a player has an a concussion, they need to get a third party approval, in a sense, a doctor outside of the management team in order to allow the player to get back on the field.
00:27:36:21 – 00:27:53:02
Rob Besner
And that generally takes about six weeks. We’re getting people we’re getting players back on the field in two in two weeks using the same. Well, think about that in terms of their career. Right. You know, so anyway. Yeah. So what are.
00:27:53:02 – 00:27:59:07
Nathan Crane
You doing for them? What are you doing for those players that are injured and what kind of injuries are you seeing and what’s what do you see? Well, what the results.
00:27:59:07 – 00:28:25:17
Rob Besner
Well, yeah, everything. Like what you described, which could be a joint or muscle related honors or challenges there to like concussions and, you know, cervical compression. And there, of course, you know, there is a there is a relationship between your structural part of your body and your and your muscular part. And so what and I guess I’ll just personalize this.
00:28:25:17 – 00:28:44:19
Rob Besner
I used to run run track in high school. That was like a three letter guy. But, you know, kind of like B-plus. Never really like, you never really took trophy wrestling per se. But I was very active and then I pulled my groin muscle. And I remember being off the track for like 3 to 4 months. But they didn’t have physical therapy then.
00:28:45:09 – 00:29:10:16
Rob Besner
And so I just sort of limped a little bit, you know, took the pressure off with one leg while my right groin was was was healing. And then I didn’t do it 25, 30 years. Fast forward, I started to notice that my heel, the heels on my right shoe, dress, shoes were healing, were wearing on evenly with my left shoe.
00:29:11:07 – 00:29:40:23
Rob Besner
And so what happened basically by me shifting my weight to the left side while my right side healed, my right leg actually atrophied. The muscles atrophied a little, and my left leg got a little stronger carrying that weight, which shifted my gait, which basically fast forward now I don’t really suffer from lower back pain or compression, but I’m a little older guy, so gravity takes this, you know, toll on you and age takes is telling you a little bit.
00:29:41:12 – 00:30:04:04
Rob Besner
But for the most part I could be a candidate or one of those people that actually has a back injury. You start looking for the causation. And I would never have brought that back 40 years ago to a a high school track challenge. But it’s really important people tuning in today, like you have your structural system and your muscular system and they’re coordinated.
00:30:04:15 – 00:30:29:10
Rob Besner
And so when you have an injury, it’s really important that you coordinate both of those, because what happens is that you, as your muscles shift to kind of address the new you, they also address the change in your spine and the change in your structural system. So now you go and you go to your chiropractor, right? And you get an adjustment and it works for a couple of weeks, maybe a month.
00:30:29:10 – 00:30:56:04
Rob Besner
And then you have another episode again. Why is that? Because at the very same time that you address your structural shift with, which is what the chiropractor would do, you have to also address the muscular change or at least work on the muscular system so that you’re balanced in that way. And so because eventually your muscular system will pull your structural system back out because of that imbalance in the way your anatomy or your muscles are set up, you’re.
00:30:56:04 – 00:31:22:08
Nathan Crane
Basically talking about like in if if anyone does mobility work or mobility training, right. Like there’s some basic principles that I’ve learned that I follow, which is like I, I may take a lacrosse bone, like my chest might be really tight. Right? So, so myofascial release on the tissues and try and loosen up, you know, the anterior deltoid and pec minor and pec major and kind of loosen this up.
00:31:22:16 – 00:31:48:03
Nathan Crane
So I might loosen the tissues, but if I leave it at that, it’s just going to tighten back up. So then from there, you know, then I may do some stretching. And this CnF has all kinds of other stretching, maybe even Qigong, which is fantastic, right? And so Stretch it and open it up and then strengthen the muscles that are going to help open that up as well, which is not the chest muscles, because that’s going to close it right?
00:31:48:03 – 00:32:10:02
Nathan Crane
It’s the opposite muscles, which helps open up the chest, which is your upper back muscles, your scapula muscles, you know, everything in the back. So you’re going to actually open up with some stretches like like I do some banded work, right? Or I’m pulling a band stretching the chest and then strengthening the muscles behind. So it opens all of this up.
00:32:10:07 – 00:32:14:24
Nathan Crane
Is that kind of what you’re talking about when you talk about just skeletal and muscular at the same time? Right?
00:32:15:06 – 00:32:45:15
Rob Besner
Sure. Of course. The stretching is always important, but you have to look at the muscular system that’s supporting your structural system. Right. And that alignment. And so that has to be as has to be addressed and balanced as well. And so I think, you know, it’s not with all chiropractors, but many, many of the chiropractors know that. They know if they don’t send you to P.T., they’re basically building in an annuity because at some point you going to be back with that same challenge again.
00:32:45:15 – 00:33:06:03
Rob Besner
Why? Because your muscular system has already adjusted to the new you, particularly if it’s a chronic a chronic, you know, challenge that you had from the original acute injury. And so, you know, it does need to do both. Those systems need to be coordinated in order for you to truly heal. And we’re not even addressing the emotional trauma related to any of this.
00:33:06:03 – 00:33:12:01
Rob Besner
But just on the musculoskeletal piece alone that it really has to have has balance to it.
00:33:12:09 – 00:33:22:01
Nathan Crane
Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. So so after three months of that protocol I was doing right there just explained and then using the, the tri light.
00:33:22:10 – 00:33:23:00
Rob Besner
At night.
00:33:25:12 – 00:33:44:11
Nathan Crane
I was mostly mostly paying for and why three months. So when I was so getting the MRI for me was actually really helpful. Some people, it may scare them away and it like may cause more emotional trauma. For me, it was like, okay, I know what’s going on. And so I know I can figure out the path to heal this period.
00:33:44:11 – 00:34:05:19
Nathan Crane
That’s how I set my mind. So that mindset is really important, right? It’s like for stairs and bursitis and tendonitis. And I was like, Oh my God, my athletic career is over and then I was like, Nope, I will find the way. I will find the solutions. There are natural approaches to this. I will make it happen. That was just my mindset and that’s a practiced mindset.
00:34:05:19 – 00:34:24:21
Nathan Crane
That’s what I call a solution oriented mindset. Let’s find the solutions and that’s why I did that protocol together with the physical therapists in doing so, seeing him once a week and then once every other week. But in addition, doing the physical therapy four or five days a week as well. Right. And the stretching and the mobility and and the strength and all that.
00:34:24:21 – 00:34:45:21
Nathan Crane
And because the tendons I did the research on like, well how long does it take a ten and to to heal especially in this case and the average time frame that I found was about three months. And so I thought, all right, I’ll give it a full three months. I’m not going to lift anything heavy overhead. I’m not going to do any like kipping gymnastics types of things.
00:34:45:21 – 00:35:03:18
Nathan Crane
That puts massive strain on it. But I’m going to keep strengthening. I’m going to keep, you know, working. I’m going to keep building up in weight and that are not painful or excessively painful. And so I was able to keep training and keep working it out and keep exercising, getting stronger while avoiding things that were going to make it worse.
00:35:04:04 – 00:35:29:18
Nathan Crane
Gave it three months and then went in four again. I got a actually a different doctor, a functional medicine doctor who was also doing something called I did four sessions with her. I found some interesting research on this, so I tried it for four sessions. In addition was acoustic wave shock. Wave therapy is what’s called. You heard of.
00:35:29:18 – 00:35:33:03
Rob Besner
That? I know it. Yes. Socially.
00:35:33:15 – 00:35:55:16
Nathan Crane
Yeah. So shockwave therapy and saw some interesting research on tendons of. All right, I’ll give this a try. It was funny because I went in for my first session and they’re like having me fill out a paperwork about was it called what When a man has a hard time getting an erection remind me that.
00:35:55:17 – 00:35:56:08
Rob Besner
D d.
00:35:56:18 – 00:36:09:19
Nathan Crane
E d So they use it primarily for Ed at that office. And so they’re having me sign papers for E.D. and all this stuff. And I’m like, Wait a minute, you guys know I’m here for my shoulder right there. It’s kind of like, Oh, okay. Say.
00:36:10:05 – 00:36:12:24
Rob Besner
You didn’t know that your shoulders connected to your penis.
00:36:12:24 – 00:36:35:21
Nathan Crane
Somehow everything’s connected. It’s connected by energy. So. So it’s like, we’re going to heal your shoulder, but we’re going to give you that treatment in your penis. I’m like, Oh, God. Okay. Anyway, so. But that was really interesting. The shockwave there. We did four sessions of that and, and then so three months and here’s a report just after three months.
00:36:35:21 – 00:37:10:14
Nathan Crane
This is the first one was October 13th, 2022. Second one was December 28th, 2022. So now we have supersprint this tendon gnosis with partial thickness, low grade, articular sided tearing with less than 10% of tendon thickness and mild birsel sided fraying of its fibers. No high grade or full thickness, rotator cuff tear or muscle atrophy. So this was huge, right?
00:37:10:14 – 00:37:39:13
Nathan Crane
So we went from a intermediate grade partial thickness tear and a separate low grade partial thickness tear and a longitudinal tear down to basically one smaller, less than 10% of tendon thickness tear. And we had a little bit of birsel fraying instead of the bristle tear. And we had no high grade or full thickness rotator cuff tear or muscle atrophy.
00:37:39:13 – 00:38:04:05
Nathan Crane
Right. So this was like basically a huge I shows. My pre-teen is like, Oh my God, this is like, I knew we were making progress, but like, this is this is incredible. This is huge. And basically went to, I’d say 95 to 99% pain free. The pain that I was having actually associated with it was 100% pain free.
00:38:04:17 – 00:38:24:07
Nathan Crane
So I ended up getting like another kind of pain. But it wasn’t from that. It was like, So this is interesting. You talk about energy. As I started adding in more pull ups and more gymnastics and things like that, I started getting this weird pain across the front of my shoulder and we pinpoint it and found out it was actually coming from my lat.
00:38:24:22 – 00:38:47:15
Nathan Crane
So my lat energetically or whatever was starting to kind of lock up and tighten up and pull on the front of my shoulder and cause this weird well, thankfully, literally just in the last few days like that, pain has basically subsided by 90%. And more recently is when I started using the the try light all night long instead of just 20 minutes at a time.
00:38:48:10 – 00:39:24:15
Nathan Crane
And so, I mean, and then looking at the science of that and we can talk about that in a little bit, I really think that was a big contributor in the healing. But yeah, so I mean, this is like overall 80% plus on some major tears in the shoulder that most likely in, you know, nine out of ten cases a if you saw a surgeon, they would have operated right They would have said we need to operate versus seeing a chiropractor and a T and then having my own background experience in natural health for 17 years.
00:39:24:15 – 00:39:51:00
Nathan Crane
It was like, that’s not even a saving on my mind. Like I’d have to have a total separation with no chance of reconnecting before I even considered surgery. And then in that case, maybe surgery would be the right thing. But so anyway, I wanted to share that because I wanted to get into some of the science behind why you’re seeing similar results like this with healing with infrared.
00:39:51:00 – 00:40:03:00
Nathan Crane
And so it’s so so let’s talk about the trial, for example. It’s it’s three types of red light and it’s also infrared. So so talk about the science behind that and what is actually what’s the healing mechanism behind it.
00:40:03:16 – 00:40:35:16
Rob Besner
Well, before we leave and get onto your question, okay. This is oftentimes what we talk to tell our patients about how to manage chronic pain in general. About 30% of Americans report that they have chronic pain is about 100 million plus. Right. And 60% of those people have what’s called breakthrough pain, which means that if there is a stereo dial and it went to ten, it would be in nine or ten.
00:40:35:16 – 00:41:22:23
Rob Besner
So the pain is so paramount that you basically can’t function, you can’t have a normal life, you can’t sleep. There’s no position that feels right. You can’t focus at work and certainly you can sleep well. It’s like a whole cascade of chronic challenges that comes from that pain. The best, certainly the the healing paths we make and the twilight that you’re talking about is is amazing in and it’s actually something that we’re clear and we’re our devices are considered a class to medical with the FDA so we’re we go through all that registration stuff and third party testing and all that stuff that’s involved or and we actually as in just in our company as
00:41:22:23 – 00:41:54:06
Rob Besner
our standard is a little bit higher than FDA but FDA is considered globally like one of the agencies that people respect. And and for the first 15 years our companies sort of business model we took the medical model approach meaning that I would get on stage and I would I would teach practitioners how to use our technology, how to integrate it into their practices, to improve the efficacy of whatever they’re doing.
00:41:54:06 – 00:42:24:21
Rob Besner
And then our the idea was I would leverage our research and our device development with the practitioner because basically the patient seeks to practitioner and trust them for whatever reason they got there. And then if we can show that practitioner how to use our devices to improve the efficacy of what they’re doing, there’s no conflict. The doctor gets what he wants, the patient heals faster and the synergies of the both of those kinds of approaches really expedites the healing process.
00:42:24:21 – 00:42:46:00
Rob Besner
And so so of course, when you have an acute tear, an acute injury uses the healing pad, uses the trial. But the real beauty of devices to use it when you don’t need it, that’s when the true healing occurs. So when you talked about, well, you put it on you and you felt some you felt some relief and then you shifted to do losing it overnight.
00:42:46:18 – 00:43:12:17
Rob Besner
So that was a big shift because now you already your body is already in the healing mode and your brain tries to assess the damage and tries to figure out does it need to modify and create a new norm for Nathan or can it actually heal this somehow? And yet in the first thing the body will do is it sends in a bunch of like none of actually a bunch of fluid.
00:43:12:22 – 00:43:35:06
Rob Besner
It’s it causes edema and it basically locks up that joint. So it’s the way that the body sort of makes a soft cast. It makes that range of motion less. So basically, then we can assess the brain, can assess exactly if it can heal or if we have to shift and say, okay, Nathan, this is the new you.
00:43:35:13 – 00:44:01:16
Rob Besner
You’re going to have to not necessarily live with the pain, but we’re going to make an adjustment, you know, and your physiology to offset the challenge of your injury. And then over time, you so heal. And so the biggest results that we see when people start using it, when they don’t need it is that basically if, let’s say it’s a lower back pain where they normally would have some kind of an episode, every so often it would be severe.
00:44:01:16 – 00:44:33:21
Rob Besner
In some cases they would be on their backs and they couldn’t function. Now they may not have an episode for or the episodes become less frequent. And when you do have one, maybe it’s not as as bad or as deep. And then eventually that kind of sort of fades away. And so that’s the beauty of what we’ve done is we’re just basically harnessing sun energy, bringing it right into the body, improving circulation and oxygenation that will allow the are the features that the body uses natural to heal.
00:44:34:11 – 00:44:57:03
Rob Besner
And so the brain actually, you know, it’s fighting many battles, right? You’ve got invaders of bacteria and viruses everywhere. So they got to deploy some amount of energy and some amount of healing properties there. And now you muddle it up by having some kind of structural or physical injury and the brain’s got to figure out, well, am I sending half the troops to fix the shoulder or like it’s going to deploy it?
00:44:57:03 – 00:45:28:21
Rob Besner
Right. And so what we’ve done is we kind of trick the brain a little bit with Nathan, because when you bring that healing pad to that area, it’s actually bringing a different signal to the brain saying, hmm, this shoulder really needs something else going on. You know, it triggers a whole different response. So so we actually derive or bring more healing energy just by using the healing pad alone, besides what it does, by harnessing sun energy and bringing it to that place to heal.
00:45:28:21 – 00:45:39:13
Rob Besner
So the synergies of all these different things I just mentioned really makes a difference. You know, lowers pain thresholds and really expedites the healing process.
00:45:39:13 – 00:46:15:00
Nathan Crane
Yeah, it’s fascinating. And so people can see the function of this, too. I’ll share for those of you who can see, I’ll describe it if you’re just listening. But basically I’ve got other videos somewhere, but I’ve just had this on my Instagram. This was this is January, so this is right after that follow up MRI, basically doing legless rope, climb up a 20 foot rope, which, you know, initially I couldn’t even barely hold up my weight with any body weight at all with both arms, like just raising my arm above my head was so painful.
00:46:15:14 – 00:46:35:10
Nathan Crane
But this was literally right after that third month. You see legless rock concerts. These are like actually very, very challenging to use all your body weight on just, you know, one arm over the other at a time. So this was just showing you the function that was happening right after that three month, three and a half month period.
00:46:35:10 – 00:47:03:24
Nathan Crane
And then last night, actually, this was a clean and jerk. Anybody who knows a movement, but this is £244, I think, into a jerk overhead, pain free. That was absolutely pain free. And I was so I was so ecstatic last night. And that’s not my that’s not my heaviest. I’m just starting to build up again. That’s like 80% maybe.
00:47:04:09 – 00:47:22:07
Nathan Crane
And to be able to jerk like that overhead put, you know, almost £250 overhead and not have any pain when just a few months ago, like I couldn’t put an empty barbell over my head without significant pain, you know, that was that’s huge for me as an athlete. You know, I, I train as an athlete. I’m compete as an athlete.
00:47:22:07 – 00:47:45:00
Nathan Crane
I love being an athlete. And see, I stopped sharing my screen. And so, yeah, now losing function in an area of the body is pretty demoralizing for me, you know, because it’s like I look forward to training, I look forward to being at the gym, I look forward to doing CrossFit and Olympic weightlifting and and all these things.
00:47:45:00 – 00:48:05:17
Nathan Crane
I love it. I just I love everything about it. And so having that was like, all right, this is a serious issue, is a setback, but what can I learn from this? And and this is something serious. I need to take it seriously. And I did. And I’m really glad I did. And I’m glad I’ve you know, actually, I’m really glad that I met you.
00:48:05:17 – 00:48:26:22
Nathan Crane
And you so since we met last year. So this is to be totally honest, we met last year at our Holistic Leadership Council and you gave me that pad as a gift. So thank you for that. And it literally sat in a box for like almost the whole year. Unfortunately, like I pulled it out, they use a couple times.
00:48:26:22 – 00:48:38:19
Nathan Crane
I was like, This is really cool. And then I put away, I was like, I don’t really need it, You know? That’s that’s just how I that’s how I looked at it. And then and then as I went through the shoulder thing and I went like a month or two and I was like, What else do I have that could heal?
00:48:38:19 – 00:49:06:21
Nathan Crane
I’m like, I’ll do anything I can natural to heal. Oh, yeah, Robbie gave me this pad, let me try it out. And I just started using it at night and I’m so I’m so grateful and so thankful that you gave me that. And I’m excited to, like, try out more of your products. I know you guys have, like, a therapy pro, like an entire pad you can lay on that has like tens and PMF and infrared and everything, right?
00:49:06:21 – 00:49:30:24
Nathan Crane
I mean, you guys have so many cool things. I’ve been looking through your website. I’m like, All right, I want to buy that and that. And then it’s like, I want to use all of it. Yeah, but let me ask you this. What let’s talk a little bit about your background. What what led you to this path of basically designing these products and in bringing, you know, creating this company where you’re you’ve been doing this for how long now?
00:49:31:10 – 00:49:32:06
Rob Besner
23 years.
00:49:32:13 – 00:49:36:10
Nathan Crane
23 years. Incredible. Yeah. What led you what led you to it?
00:49:36:10 – 00:49:37:04
Rob Besner
Well, it really.
00:49:37:05 – 00:49:41:15
Nathan Crane
And you’re kind of So we should tell you about your company, Sarah Sage, right? There’s 8 seconds, correct?
00:49:41:21 – 00:50:14:10
Rob Besner
Mm hmm. It really was then. I mean, well, we started, and still a big demographic for us is the infectious disease area. And it all got started with my oldest child. My daughter contracted Lyme disease, and I had a health care background, physics, engineering, little business. And so I had the opportunity, a backdrop of about one. And 25 years ago, it wasn’t quite as advanced as is now.
00:50:14:18 – 00:50:43:11
Rob Besner
We were living in South Florida. My family, my daughter was in her early teens and we were lucky enough to be able to contract with the top Lyme literature doctor who is in Southampton and Long Island and then he’s still considered the top one of the top line guys in the world. And, and and so again, back then, we didn’t have to tell him and we didn’t have what we had was a doctor in New York, then corresponding doctors in Florida.
00:50:43:20 – 00:51:12:15
Rob Besner
And in a short amount of time, my daughter had a neurologist, a pain management doctor, so general and GP, a mind literate doctor. And so in a short amount of time I started to realize, Nathan, the onus on with chronic diseases and you know, it’s great that you see your doctor and you get guidance from them and protocols and so forth, but the onus of the healing really is on the patient in particular and their surrounding family members and the community around that.
00:51:13:11 – 00:51:45:18
Rob Besner
And so I as a family member having a medical background, I took on the responsibility of becoming my daughter’s nurse and essentially employing her medications and her pick lines and all the things that she needed based on what was accepted back then. Again, I’m a I’m an integrated, functional guy, so we’re talking allopathic antibiotics, cocktails of antibiotics. So so like against it, you know, but it was what was the most effective and generally accepted back then.
00:51:45:18 – 00:52:19:20
Rob Besner
And I had to go with what my wife wanted and my daughter accepted as far as her treatment plans. And so I started to take a look at her, the way she was expressing herself. And she had high levels of of she had high levels of she had cognitive challenges. She had challenges with pain. And she had what I thought was high, high levels of of inflammation and toxicity.
00:52:20:04 – 00:52:47:20
Rob Besner
And when I impact or unpacked that combination and somehow I centered on toxicity and I started to research the the best methods to detoxify and the noninvasive ways while invasive ways were like dialysis and things like that. But the noninvasive ways we’re using chemicals, it could be pharmaceutical or natural chemicals to basically purge toxins. But then you still have the challenge of getting them out.
00:52:47:20 – 00:53:18:01
Rob Besner
Right. But during that process, I discovered that there’s actually some frequencies of sun energy that will mobilize all the toxins in your body. But again, 25 years ago, infrared frequencies and devices were it’s an infancy and in the health care industry, it was basically just deployed by sports medicine doctors to get players to lower their pain and heal faster with other methods, you know, to get them on the field.
00:53:18:12 – 00:53:37:06
Rob Besner
And so I said, okay, I’ll take all that. And what I did was I organized a trip to go to Asia and I spent three months, visited 65 factories, found to that I wanted to work with and just started developing devices to help my daughter because I felt that the that the real healing and a real onus on the healing process.
00:53:37:06 – 00:53:57:17
Rob Besner
As much as we took the information from her team of doctors, then it was really on us as a family unit. And so the all the doctors around us saw that she was having miraculous results from the devices that were making that they asked for us to start making them for their practices. And that was really the genesis of our company.
00:53:58:11 – 00:54:21:04
Rob Besner
We didn’t have any venture capital. We didn’t have a big business plan that was truly organic to the point, divinely driven. And my wife and I are still, you know, we own 100% of our company and we we just, you know, are doing what we feel is the right by people. And I guess this might seem corny, but we’re like we’re about people of a profit.
00:54:21:14 – 00:54:45:06
Rob Besner
We make a margin in our company. A lot of our money is go back into research and making new products. We generally develop three new devices every year except for this year. We’re actually going to bring six new devices on this year, which is a lot for me. But, you know, it’s it’s a calling. And Nathan, I am no longer in control of my TV set.
00:54:45:06 – 00:54:56:13
Rob Besner
I’m just a vessel right now. So my I get downloads. I am very much connected to source. And that information I manifest into real devices that we all can use.
00:54:57:13 – 00:55:04:15
Nathan Crane
What was the what was the very first device you designed?
00:55:04:15 – 00:55:30:15
Rob Besner
And they sort of make you laugh. But it was a it was a computerized infrared massage bed. And so you lay on the bed and you had these jade rollers that are go back and forth under your back and they do a segmental adjustment. And like a chiropractor adjustment. And they so they real on your spine. The whole belly of the bed was was infrared frequencies.
00:55:30:21 – 00:56:02:22
Rob Besner
So it basically warm up your structural system and all of the connective tissues of soft touch fascia and tendons ligaments. And so that that’s generally what like I’ve mentioned earlier, it’s that it’s the muscular part of your system that changes your alignment or vice versa. So you get on the bed and if you are warmed up with the infrared frequencies now these areas like your tendons and and soft fash and so forth, the those connective tissues, when they’re warmed up, they become more supple.
00:56:02:22 – 00:56:11:16
Rob Besner
And that allows your structural system to relax, particularly if you’re in trauma. And then the bed will do all the work. It was.
00:56:11:21 – 00:56:15:07
Nathan Crane
It was. It sounds that sounds awesome, actually. Yeah, sounds great.
00:56:15:07 – 00:56:36:19
Rob Besner
It was probably one of the coolest devices that I’ve made, but it didn’t really make it here in the U.S. because except. Except well, it did have a relationship with massage envy at one point corporate and what they wanted to do was they felt that there’s a certain population of people that are massage phobic. They don’t like to be touched.
00:56:36:19 – 00:57:03:16
Rob Besner
It could be religious religion or colloquial impressions of massage places. And so they wanted to get this non attended massage device, which is what we made into their establishments and so that they could accommodate that ten or 20% of the people that were uncomfortable. This way they can go in their own room, private room, hit a button, get a treatment.
00:57:04:06 – 00:57:30:21
Rob Besner
And what they felt was that people were transitioned into getting hands on massages because they’d get comfortable with the establishment. It’s clean, it’s above board. Wasn’t the red light district like people often think massage parlors or such places are about. And then that was a very successful relationship for us. But the model in general wasn’t really something that it was the beginning and it was kind of funny.
00:57:30:21 – 00:57:53:19
Rob Besner
I had two other partners then Nathan and I bought both of them out, but we used to have our corporate meetings. The three of us would get on massage or massage beds in the shower room, and for 30 minutes we would just talk about business while we were in a tree. And I thought to myself, you know, it was our it was actually tagline is the best 30 minutes my day because I’m just with myself.
00:57:53:24 – 00:58:19:12
Rob Besner
I’m allowing my body to rest. We were doing some business at the same time, but it really was kind of a nice way to explore your inner self and thoughts because you had you didn’t have any of those normal encumbrances that we might have in a normal life. So that really was the beginning of us really unpacking what the power of infrared.
00:58:20:09 – 00:58:42:09
Rob Besner
And that led me to making our whole series of healing parts of which the twilight that you mentioned is really one of the most advanced types of PEDs, the therapy pro that you mentioned earlier in the show. I can’t believe that you actually mentioned that because we announced that less than two weeks ago. And and it was it’s we sold out in a day.
00:58:42:18 – 00:59:05:18
Rob Besner
I never expected that kind of response. So now we’re just kind of ramping up and we’ve done all of our we’ve taken back a lot of the assembly here. We’re doing it in the US and in a warehouse in California. Oh, that’s cool. Yeah. So, so we build on generally on demand, but I never expected that kind of response from this announcement.
00:59:06:05 – 00:59:31:17
Rob Besner
And now we’re just sort of getting ramped up. So I think that’s going to be really a big, big addition to our group and then our list, our catalog, and then maybe a year and a half to two years after we started perfecting the healing pads, we we, I developed the infrared sauna. We were we were making wooden asanas again.
00:59:31:17 – 00:59:56:24
Rob Besner
Remember, I’m in I’m sort of not looking in optimal health, which is what you were talking about. Your category. I’m looking more into the infectious disease side. And initially when we made our wooden softeners, we would have farmed the wood in Canada and then we would send it over to China. We would have it tooled and then and have all the specifications of of the electronics.
00:59:56:24 – 01:00:14:16
Rob Besner
And then we would bring it in to the US. What I didn’t realize at the time was that it by the governments, they mandate that these woods are sprayed with chemicals, DDT, so it prevents any insects or bacteria from a foreign country into the country that the what they’re going to.
01:00:14:17 – 01:00:15:02
Nathan Crane
You know, it’s.
01:00:15:02 – 01:00:36:06
Rob Besner
Terrible. So I was super smart, Nathan, because I actually had my words sprayed twice, once out of Canada to China and then again from China to the US. So here I am bringing them into the into the market. And I’m working with people that have infectious diseases and they’re looking at detox, not realizing that these woods were off gassing these chemicals.
01:00:36:15 – 01:01:00:06
Rob Besner
And so we we quickly reoriented and shifted. And so we found a factory in the US that the woods are done based out here. We use natural aspen wood. It’s it’s still very popular, but we were actually number one in the world in our affordable format. And the reason why we developed the portable format was because when even though I have direct intentions.
01:01:00:06 – 01:01:20:00
Rob Besner
Nathan, when I’m but I’m when I’m building something or I’m developing a new device and I’m a very active listener, and so when I made the, the wooden sign of what I heard was, you know, I really needed the sound. But I live in Manhattan in $1,000,000 apartment, but it’s 700 square feet. I can’t I don’t have the planner, gram.
01:01:20:00 – 01:01:37:01
Rob Besner
I don’t have the space to actually have that. Okay. So I need to come up with a design that’s space saving. And then I heard, well, I live in Minnesota, I have all the space in the world, but I can’t afford the wooden Sonos, the good ones, because they’re somewhere in the area of 5 to $6000 for the nice ones, you know?
01:01:38:01 – 01:02:01:21
Rob Besner
And so, okay, I got to make something for around $1,000 and it has to be space saving. And so that’s where I came up with the concept of portable cinema, as you see it today, which I probably advanced more than 25 times from its inception in terms of integrations and different changes in it. But that’s been a great one for us because we’re we’re really changing people’s lives.
01:02:02:10 – 01:02:23:14
Rob Besner
And mostly it’s a cultural thing because if you come outside the country, Nathan, and then you go to like the Baltic states countries or you go to the Ukraine, it’s very common that people do so on a Basically every day. They have them in their homes, so they go to a community sweat, sweat, houses. Native Americans have sweat lodges right?
01:02:23:14 – 01:03:16:23
Rob Besner
So sweating is a modality to to pulling out toxins is very common and integrated both in religion and in cultural, you know, aspects. And so now the whole attention to this has really dialed up mostly it’s probably a little bit COVID, meaning that people’s awareness of looking for alternative solutions that you can do at home as well as what’s happening with the with chronic ailments like the the trends are so steep and it has a lot to do with our environment so that whole epigenetic piece, the effects of the choices that we make and how that alters our genetics that’s causing high levels of toxicity in which toxicity and inflammation, they sort of travel together
01:03:16:23 – 01:03:52:02
Rob Besner
on the same highway so that can lower your toxicity. I can also lower you to systemic inflammation, and that gives you a fighting chance. Now, segueing into optimal health, guys like you, about eight years ago, I decided shift my interests into to talking and working with Optimum Health Guys. So excuse me. And so you know how you know the whole Law of Attraction thing, because I know you’ve lived that probably practice every day.
01:03:52:09 – 01:04:15:12
Rob Besner
Yeah. So I just focused on bringing more of that kind of energy to me. And, and ever since then, we’ve been very active in signing up a lot of the pro ballplayers as part of our our they’re part of our client base. We don’t really talk about their celebrity because we like to keep it private. And it’s interesting about pro ballplayers.
01:04:15:12 – 01:04:33:04
Rob Besner
Half of them want to keep us a secret because we’re the secret sauce in their success of why they’re playing without injury and things like that. The other path one share. So we don’t generally talk about them being clients unless they speak first.
01:04:33:04 – 01:04:56:11
Nathan Crane
So I want to let’s let’s pause for one second, if you will, please. I want to I want to go into health optimization here in a second, but I do actually want to stay on on chronic health, especially with detoxification. Before we get off that point. It too far down the road because one majority of my audience is actually people dealing with the chronic health condition like cancer or autoimmune disease or diabetes, heart disease.
01:04:56:20 – 01:05:28:14
Nathan Crane
So I want to serve them the best that we can and to because there’s a lot of controversy around detox and I’d actually say misinformation around detoxification, especially with sauna and infrared. So I’ll I’ll share something with you, and I want to hear your thoughts on this. But if you at least if I go to I mean, I know Google changes things depending on where you live and different things like that, But if if I do a Google search and I just type in infrared science detox.
01:05:29:01 – 01:05:55:09
Nathan Crane
Right. The first thing that pulled up for me was a website called Science based Medicine, Dawg. And by the way, this is not only the first thing, this is the first five or six listings saying that saunas and infrared do not help you detox. Here’s the Atlantic. Infrared saunas will not detoxify you. And if you click into this, it also goes into deep.
01:05:55:19 – 01:06:21:01
Nathan Crane
They say these are false claims, etc. There is one in the top three actually from Mayo Clinic, which is a very short article that basically says Sauna can can help with heart failure and dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, etc.. But we need more studies. That’s basically it’s a little short article. It’s like, yeah, it could help. The research is showing it could help, but it needs more studies.
01:06:21:15 – 01:06:44:20
Nathan Crane
The rest of it on the first few posts of Google primarily are dissuading people from the idea that science can help for detox. And let’s face it, most people today, their research, if they say, Oh, I research something, they go to Google, they type in a few words, they look at the maybe one or two articles on the first page, and that’s it.
01:06:45:03 – 01:07:08:16
Nathan Crane
That’s their research, right? You and I both know that that’s not research at all. You know, if I research something, it could be weeks or months or years before I finally come to what I consider to be a real conclusion on that. And I’m looking at lots of different scientific studies, lots of different websites, different case studies. I’m interviewing people.
01:07:08:16 – 01:07:46:04
Nathan Crane
I’m interviewing doctors. Like when I do research, it’s to try to really understand things at a deep level. It’s not looking at one or two posts on Google, but I’m bringing this up so people understand why there is so much misinformation when it comes to things like natural health and holistic health, because the first thing on on Google with the title called Science Based Medicine, is an article that says Detoxification or Detox for short has become a standard justification for all sorts of treatments and are not based on solid scientific principles or evidence.
01:07:46:14 – 01:08:11:16
Nathan Crane
As we often refer to it. The toxin gambit is a marketing technique for scaring the public about the menace of unspecified toxins, then offering treatment that will remove these vague and mysterious toxins. And they basically say any claim to detox is a red flag for quackery. All right. So this is what the general public sees. If they, quote unquote, research infrared and saunas and detox.
01:08:11:16 – 01:08:48:09
Nathan Crane
Right. Oh, first. And we can go down this rabbit hole. Really in a in a couple other things. I guess I’ll just preface this with. I can go to PubMed right now, which is not a blog run by a few guys, which somehow this blog is the first page of Google, but I can actually go to PubMed and find an immediate abstract that says softeners do enhancer mobilization, infrared saunas do enhance the mobilization of heavy metals and chemical xeno biotics.
01:08:48:24 – 01:09:05:01
Nathan Crane
And again, there’s more research that we can dive into and there are a lot of other sources we can go to Green Med info is a good one where we actually find various studies on this. But let me hand it back to you and I just want to hear your thoughts on on this what I just shared right.
01:09:05:01 – 01:09:35:06
Rob Besner
Well, first off, I’m not surprised. I’m not big on conspiracy theories. But if you looked at some of the some of the brands and the names that were suggesting Sun is interesting as to not help you detoxify, there’s some of the same groups that, you know, benefit by you being sick, you know, like so. So it’s subtle, but I hear the stuff about quackery.
01:09:35:11 – 01:10:03:09
Rob Besner
It always makes me think about all the innovations in science particularly, and innovate in integrative and functional like we’ve been. We’ve been told that we’ve been quacks for 25 years and now the allopathic mainstream approach, they’re kind of running out of playing room on, the field. And some of those doctors are actually starting to bring more advanced integrative techniques into their own practices.
01:10:03:19 – 01:10:28:23
Rob Besner
So there is a dichotomy here. It’s very polarized and the question is, first off, you know, like who’s in charge of your health care? Nathan is at the hospital and that doctor or ultimately, is it you and your family? That’s the choice we made as the family to take it back to ourselves. What can we do to support our daughter’s health care, period?
01:10:28:23 – 01:11:08:11
Rob Besner
And we had means because at some at some point, my daughter’s medications, travel and doctor bills were in the tens of thousands every month. And so that’s why the many of the people in the country are bankrupt because they can’t pay. It’s all because their health care challenges are expenses. And so I think, you know, really when I look about look at it, unpack it, it’s really more a story about like that natural part, like what is in nature versus the sort of allopathic approach, which is the Band-Aid, big Band-Aid.
01:11:08:11 – 01:11:31:23
Rob Besner
Let’s mask that pain. Let’s do some surgery or mask it until you need surgery. Okay. Rather than what can we do naturally to allow the body to heal? You know, and again, like we both said earlier, and I couldn’t agree with you more if you were in a car accident, the best place to go is a hospital in the U.S. But when you’re talking about chronic infectious disease, No.
01:11:33:00 – 01:12:11:12
Rob Besner
So so I think that it’s very easy for them to take space on these search engines to debunk the general public. But the nice part about it is the Internet. It’s like the first, the blessing and the curse, right? So you can research it, but then you can research it. And then if you really care and like, let’s just take Lyme disease or cancer or autoimmune or any of these major ones, you’re when you’re on your back and you’ve got some time on your hands and it’s your life and you’re watching that that ethereal sound coming through that hourglass right in your life, it’s just dwindling away.
01:12:11:20 – 01:12:42:12
Rob Besner
You’ve got a lot of time to think about what what might be alternatives or different ways to try to help yourself heal. And so we’ve it’s there’s so much interesting to talk about about just that comment we are guided by FDA that means that they come into our website and we can’t make medical claims and we don’t. But we did say at one point, you know, our infrared sauna will help you detoxify.
01:12:42:13 – 01:13:15:11
Rob Besner
Well, they came back and they said, You can’t say that. Well the W.H.O., World Health Organization, in less than a month prior, came out with a statement that said that sweating equals detoxification doesn’t have to be an infrared sauna, could be a steam room or a hot rock song like a Swedish sauna. But sweating equals detox. Yet the FDA says, we can’t say that your sauna, our sun, it helps you detox, but yet you’re in that zone and you sweat.
01:13:15:11 – 01:13:46:04
Rob Besner
So what’s what’s going on? These are generally accepted, you know, major institutions, right? Again, I think it creates a very confusing message. And not to say that they’re trying to do that on purpose, but when, you know, you and I are pretty healthy, but when you’re your back with a chronic ailment, you’re not thinking quite straight, straight and and you’re hoping that the FDA and some of these guiding agencies will actually work in your benefit.
01:13:46:04 – 01:14:09:18
Rob Besner
But we are discovering that often them often are more than not, that they’re all funded by by the drug companies. And, you know, all of those different groups. I don’t want to get into all the politics around that. But what I did decide was, sure, we’ll just take off the word detoxification on our website. You know why? Because I don’t have to say it anymore.
01:14:10:00 – 01:14:34:24
Rob Besner
The power of the Internet says it for me, and all I have to do is show the research that’s involved in how the many different ways that Sun Energy will help you heal. And one clearly is to mobilize all the toxins in your body. Okay, So the vibration of sunlight, an infrared frequency is actually when it comes into the body is called a bio resonance.
01:14:34:24 – 01:15:02:23
Rob Besner
It’s a vibration. It breaks the covalent bond between the toxicant and where it’s stored. That’s either your tissues, muscles, organs, stuff like that. And now you’ve got this cascading toxin that’s going into your ceremony or your blood. That’s a measurable event. You can’t you can’t say before your blood toxic level was here, let’s just say that said number ten, and then you went and sat on it and now it’s a 20.
01:15:03:09 – 01:15:11:05
Nathan Crane
And they’ve done studies with this specifically with an infrared sauna, and then measured the blood before, during and after.
01:15:11:12 – 01:15:27:00
Rob Besner
Yeah, Yeah. They actually measured the they actually did a study where they measured a drop of sweat from the same guy that went in in a hot rock song into a steam room and an infrared sauna. And there’s 85% more toxins in the sweat from the infrared sauna.
01:15:27:16 – 01:15:31:22
Nathan Crane
So that that magically came from the air and entered into the sweat then, right?
01:15:32:00 – 01:15:32:20
Rob Besner
Yeah. Somehow.
01:15:33:05 – 01:15:42:21
Nathan Crane
Somehow. Now, are these are some of these they have a ton of scientific studies on your website or any of the ones you’re mentioning. Are they on your website. Yeah. Heavy metals in sweat one. I see that one right now.
01:15:43:15 – 01:15:53:10
Rob Besner
Yeah. That’s Yeah. We can post many, many more. We have a plethora of research that we’ve done over the years.
01:15:53:15 – 01:15:56:13
Nathan Crane
I like that you just made it easily accessible on your website for people.
01:15:57:00 – 01:16:21:24
Rob Besner
Yeah. And I think that’s what is nice about like the freedoms or some liberties we have in our speech or hopefully we’ll still have. And so so we just want to put it out there. We’re not we’re not scaring people into making choices. We’re just offering the information and so that you can make an informed choice as to what is best for you.
01:16:22:03 – 01:16:29:08
Nathan Crane
So you said that that study they found 85% more toxins in the sweat after being in sauna For how long?
01:16:29:17 – 01:16:33:03
Rob Besner
Infrared sauna. I think it was a half hour.
01:16:33:03 – 01:16:35:13
Nathan Crane
It was this your sauna or just any infrared sauna?
01:16:35:19 – 01:16:39:13
Rob Besner
It was not done on most sauna. It was done on, on. And it’s on.
01:16:39:13 – 01:16:44:02
Nathan Crane
It doesn’t matter if it’s near infrared. Far infrared, full spectrum. What does.
01:16:44:02 – 01:17:03:13
Rob Besner
That mean? Well, that’s what we the approach. Yeah. The approach that we’ve taken is one that’s sort of a page out of the playbook of nature. So the sun delivers full spectrum, all three wavelengths. And that’s what we do. In fact, what I did was the NSA actually publishes that the the amount of, you know, sun energy that hits the planet every day.
01:17:03:13 – 01:17:32:06
Rob Besner
So I took one year of information and I took the first and second standard deviation of the way that Sun delivers infrared to the planet. And that was the formula that we used for the sort of our cocktail initially in our there are 360 plus switches that are top model, the portable. Then about four years ago I used to teach for about 18 years at Socrates.
01:17:32:06 – 01:18:00:01
Rob Besner
It’s a health institute in West Palm Beach. And I was in actually the room that I like, the venue I like. There is this big mural of the Parker that is on the back wall. And it started bugging me because it’s sort of like one of his things is, you know, food is your medicine, right? But the food of Hippocrates Day 200 years ago isn’t the food of today because of the change in our environment, nor is our environment the same.
01:18:00:01 – 01:18:34:05
Rob Besner
And so the way that our body interprets our environment now that’s that epigenetic piece is very different than it was 200 years ago. And so I chose change the alter our formula by developing those dry lights that sit inside that there are 360 because I wanted to make it more modern. What we’re seeing in clinic is that we have, you know, 15 year old women that are showing signs of sterility and guys under 20 that have low testosterone levels.
01:18:34:11 – 01:18:37:12
Rob Besner
That’s not genetic, right? That’s the effect of our environment.
01:18:37:12 – 01:18:38:16
Nathan Crane
That’s environmental. Yeah.
01:18:38:16 – 01:18:48:03
Rob Besner
And also, you know, we’re we’re experiencing oxidative stress and and mitochondria depletion and stress.
01:18:48:10 – 01:19:19:06
Nathan Crane
And so, yeah, excessive stress, which leads to excessive amounts of cortisol, you know, being dumped in the blood system every single day, you know, lack of sleep and totally throwing hormones out of balance in men and women. Right. I mean, we’re seeing this and we’re seeing an infertility in men like never before. You know, there are some studies that actually show, you know, there was this was one of those things that was told on the Internet as, oh, that’s that’s conspiracy theory.
01:19:19:06 – 01:19:39:14
Nathan Crane
That’s quackery. If you keep your phone in your pocket near testicles as a man, you know, it was it was claimed as basically quackery to say that it’s going to reduce your count and decrease your testosterone. But there are scientific studies actually back in that up now and have been for a while. It’s just people didn’t realize they existed.
01:19:39:14 – 01:19:40:18
Rob Besner
Well, you know.
01:19:41:02 – 01:20:05:20
Nathan Crane
It’s not just cell phones, like you said. It’s you know, it’s plastics in the environment. It’s Zino Estrogens, which are overloading the body with excessive, you know, chemical, you know, human derived man derived chemical Zino estrogens that mimic estrogens, that overload the body. And and make the hormonal system just completely out of whack. It’s it’s crazy was going on.
01:20:06:23 – 01:20:32:01
Rob Besner
Yeah. And so back to our initial concept right how do we take our health care back? What can we do to own our health challenges and what kinds of solutions or what kinds of devices can you incorporate in your daily life that could make a big difference? And so that’s been kind of our mantra. I mean, 25 years ago when we got started on this journey, I never expected it to be what it is today.
01:20:32:21 – 01:21:05:02
Rob Besner
I never anticipated that we’d have the challenges with Bluetooth and wireless devices and the effects of the stressors of these exogenous frequencies on the body. And yet 17 years ago, just on a on a sequence of dreams that I had, I just started developing shielding and blocking EMF electromagnetic fields. And then about three years ago, I developed a way to create holograms that have imprints of frequencies.
01:21:05:02 – 01:21:42:06
Rob Besner
So now I do harmonization website calls. So we see a lot and we harmonize. So we’re creating a feel that stronger than the exogenous feels so that the integrity of the body feels kept in place, which again supports your natural immune system and gets us to be back to, you know, the way nature intended us to be. So so again, I mean, my approach I want to say that it’s original, but I study nature and I studied ancient cultures and I am and I look to see the shifts that are occurring and I look for the areas of technology.
01:21:42:06 – 01:22:15:22
Rob Besner
I mean, my basis is energy medicine. So harnessing full of full spectrum infrared is my thing. There are people that will Google. They’re going to see a big range between near infrared and far infrared. I think they both benefit. It’s like it’s the way I feel about nature. There’s there’s a very there’s a really important balance. But in today’s world you’re looking for that magic pill or people like to reduction is like reductionism or compartmentalizing and say I’m a near infrared guy and it does all these things well.
01:22:16:07 – 01:22:33:06
Rob Besner
My feeling is, is that that you need all of these frequencies for you to be in balance. And so we try to deliver at the same way that that nature gives it to us. Although I did alter it just a little bit to sort of be more modern with the way that people are expressing themselves from an epigenetic point of view.
01:22:33:15 – 01:22:36:11
Rob Besner
And that’s where the invention of the try light system came in.
01:22:36:22 – 01:22:48:07
Nathan Crane
Now can you talk just a little bit about differences between the red light therapy itself and then infrared? So different green red lights and infrared frequencies?
01:22:48:20 – 01:23:10:11
Rob Besner
All right. Well, there is, you know, a cascade of different wavelengths of of sunlight or light that what everybody looks at now is the light, Like, that’s the rainbow, you know. RG Biv Right. And so that’s what we see how I can why I see you right now on the other side of the of the country. Not really.
01:23:10:11 – 01:23:11:16
Rob Besner
We’re both in the same state, right?
01:23:12:21 – 01:23:14:02
Nathan Crane
Yeah, you’re in Florida right now.
01:23:14:08 – 01:23:36:01
Rob Besner
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so but we’re not in the same place. Exactly. But I can see you is because we’re both resonating or our eyes are able tune into the natural light. The kind of light frequency we’re talking about now is invisible to our eye. That wavelength is outside of our. Our light or our visibility. Or at least what the retina can pick up.
01:23:36:06 – 01:23:37:11
Nathan Crane
The infrared you’re talking about.
01:23:37:16 – 01:24:05:03
Rob Besner
Yeah, Yeah. Same for UVB. So the way it looks like when Sun delivers these electromagnetic fields to the planet, it starts with gamma rays, x rays, then UV frequencies, which are the they’re kind of the nurturing frequencies. They’ll change your entire body and they the natural production of vitamin D, super important. And then there’s light, which is what we see each other.
01:24:05:07 – 01:24:29:22
Rob Besner
That’s the visible spectrum. And then there’s the infrared spectrum after that invisible. So we have we have then the we have the UVB that’s nurturing, and then we have I.R. infrared that’s actually healing. So you can overexpose to obvious when you get a suntan, that’s for everybody. You know, like all these agencies, particularly Florida, you can’t go out in the sun.
01:24:29:22 – 01:24:55:24
Rob Besner
You get cancer, you know, skin cancer, all this stuff. Actually, our studies in clinic and lab are just the opposite. Many of these frequencies of sunlight, they yes, it’s true. There are UV frequencies, too. When you get overexposed will alter your DNA and RNA. But just like the balance in nature, if you overexposed to, you b it gets corrected by being in infrared frequencies.
01:24:55:24 – 01:25:20:01
Rob Besner
And that’s how it works every day. So if we date back to our ancestors, we lived in land caves, in tents. We were at forest, we were out hunting all day. We that way are exposed to UV frequencies right? But we were also out in the sun long enough to get healed by the infrared spectrum. We’re in today’s modern world.
01:25:20:01 – 01:25:43:00
Rob Besner
We’re out on the beach. We get nice and tan and overexposed to the movie frequencies, but we don’t hang out long enough to actually get healed by the air wavelengths and that’s unfortunate. But what we’ve done as a company is, is harness these healing powers of full spectrum infrared and just made it available in devices, on body devices like the healing pads that we talked about earlier in the sauna.
01:25:43:00 – 01:26:06:20
Rob Besner
That’s a full body experience, again, giving you the ability, each of us, the ability at an incredibly affordable price to bring these healing properties of nature into our into our home. We can integrate it into our lifestyles every like you don’t have to be out in the sun at the right time of day in order for you to get it.
01:26:06:20 – 01:26:11:13
Rob Besner
You cannot do it in your own home whenever and the convenience of your lifestyle and schedule.
01:26:12:17 – 01:26:23:16
Nathan Crane
So the infrared, obviously the invisible spectrum, the healing spectrum, the air that you’re talking about and the red light is, is the. So that’s obviously visible.
01:26:24:06 – 01:26:32:20
Rob Besner
Yeah. Red light is the is the wavelength that’s right before infrared. That’s why the near frequencies of infrared, that’s why they’re so so as.
01:26:32:20 – 01:26:37:02
Nathan Crane
Red like considered a UV, it’s not a U.V. then. Now what is it.
01:26:37:08 – 01:27:02:23
Rob Besner
So it goes UVA, then it goes to natural light like the rainbow. Then you’ve got purple, blue, green and red. These are all wavelengths. So it’s almost like mention of being a radio station. 105 is country rock and one of seven is R&B. So each of these different every time you turn the radio station, every time you tune in to a different wavelength of sun energy, it’s going to have a different healing aspect to the body.
01:27:03:13 – 01:27:12:06
Rob Besner
And if you isolate one or the other, yeah, you can get a benefit, but you’re not getting that holistic approach the way nature intended us to get.
01:27:12:17 – 01:27:34:22
Nathan Crane
And so and we know that like if you had the blue light in there, which is, you know, if you look at your at night in most people’s houses, it looks very white. Right? A lot of that what we see is actually the blue light spectrum that’s actually, you know, activating cortisol in your in your body and your brain to say, hey, the sun’s out, it’s time to stay awake.
01:27:34:22 – 01:28:05:04
Nathan Crane
Right. And so if we if we have that blue light spectrum at night, it’s hard for our bodies to self-regulate and start producing melatonin to go to sleep. We’re constantly exposed to those bright lights from overhead lights and computer lights and phone lights and all that versus. We do know that if it’s red light or blue light blocking, which can also be orange or red, it doesn’t have that effect on the stimulation of of cortisol.
01:28:05:06 – 01:28:05:14
Nathan Crane
Right.
01:28:05:14 – 01:28:28:19
Rob Besner
So that’s really I’m really glad you brought that up. There’s a little gland about the size of a of a walnut that sits in the center of your brain called the pineal gland. And it does regulate serotonin and melatonin production and it is light activated. So in other words, when you’re sleeping at night, there is a connection between your ocular nerve and pineal gland.
01:28:29:07 – 01:29:12:16
Rob Besner
And when the sun rises in the morning, it’s that the pineal gland through your through your, your eye or your calendar will actually be sense for the pineal gland since the sun rising. And then what it does is it turns off the production of melatonin and starts the production of serotonin, which is your energy hormone. And so using, like you mentioned earlier, like a hand, like a PDA or being like before bed, getting exposed to the blue light is going to activate the pineal gland and makes it think that it’s sunrise when you’re actually trying to go to bed and.
01:29:12:16 – 01:29:22:11
Rob Besner
So it’s really not the best, you know, to actually use those kind of devices that actually turn off those two devices here about an hour or so before bed. It’s a good, good practice.
01:29:22:11 – 01:30:01:13
Nathan Crane
Yeah. So I guess that leads me to my question around is there so in that case, I don’t see why there would be an issue using the red light therapy and the infrared therapy at night. Right. At least not not in disrupting sleep, I would imagine. But are there other concerns about using using being exposed to that those spectrums, those frequencies of light for too long of periods of times for I mean, is it because, again, talking about nature, the sun is up for roughly 12 hours a day and the sun is down for roughly 12 hours.
01:30:01:14 – 01:30:29:22
Nathan Crane
That depends where you live, etc.. But let’s just say if it were perfect, 12 and 12, so were were designed not to be exposed to those light, those light frequencies for, you know, roughly 12 hours a day. So is there a concern that there’s an imbalance created by, you know, if we’re using exposing or overexposing ourselves to these light frequencies for excessive amounts of time, that’s a.
01:30:29:22 – 01:30:30:02
Rob Besner
Great.
01:30:30:12 – 01:30:32:07
Nathan Crane
Taking ourselves out of balance with nature.
01:30:32:22 – 01:30:57:23
Rob Besner
Yeah, well, there’s a little piece here that talks speaks to the circadian rhythms in your bio clock. So that’s an important little piece. But all of my research takes me to the place where you can’t really overexposure yourself to infrared because there’s a process in the body that’s called homeostasis. It’s sort of the way that we create balance.
01:30:57:23 – 01:31:29:18
Rob Besner
So the brain creates balance. And so what it does is that it just we have all these inputs and stressors and then the brain tries to analyze of them. And then when the when the information comes out, the other side of the tunnel is somewhat stable, pretty much my challenge is, frankly, when I teach and when I try to employ some of our different protocols with our devices is particularly the chronic element area.
01:31:29:18 – 01:31:51:01
Rob Besner
People are just so sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I’m sure you can experience this in your journalist as well. I have to tell them to slow down like you. It may have taken you 20 years to get toxic with the Lyme pathogen in your body. You’re not going to just become an toxic in a day or so, you know.
01:31:51:14 – 01:32:10:11
Rob Besner
And so I kind of fashioned like climbing a mountain, right. You know, one step at a time. Right now, when you come down the mountain, it’s not it should be done in a healthy way, one step at a time. It’s hard to fall when you’re climbing a mountain. It’s really easy to fall coming down if just take too big giant steps.
01:32:10:11 – 01:32:42:24
Rob Besner
Right? So so that’s always been sort of a challenge for me, particularly with chronic Lyme patients. I find myself oftentimes just telling them slow down and have real realistic expectation and understand that you didn’t get toxic and become symptomatic overnight. This happened over a period of time in that we would just take it slow coming down and and see and how the body is actually interpreting the changes.
01:32:43:08 – 01:33:03:15
Rob Besner
And so one part of the discussion is about the sauna and what these frequencies will do to the body. The other part is memory and some modern supplements like binders by bio binders that so now immobilize the toxin. You a binder that’s like a sponge. And it basically doubles up these toxicants and helps the body get them out.
01:33:04:02 – 01:33:30:07
Rob Besner
And so it’s not just good enough to just be able to mobilize just sweats an out, but that generally like the heavy metals and the biofilms, the stilt, they call it like nano toxins that make mycotoxins mold and stuff like that. They’re immobilize them. But almost like those paperweights, forget what they call them when you shake them up and it starts snowing and then they settle back down, right like a snow globe.
01:33:30:09 – 01:33:36:24
Rob Besner
Snow glass. So. Exactly. I knew it. There was a name for that. I have to remember that. And thank you anyway. Yeah.
01:33:36:24 – 01:33:41:17
Nathan Crane
So I grew up in Montana, so, you know, so, you know, snow globes are pretty common.
01:33:41:17 – 01:34:06:19
Rob Besner
The big, big thing, Right. Okay. Anyway, so. Right. So what we were trying to do in our own approaches was create a device that will certainly benefit your body in helping immobilize the toxin and then create the proper synergies of the proper kind of binary that will marry up with know your journey or whatever you’re going for on to actually mobilize them and get them out.
01:34:07:04 – 01:34:11:01
Rob Besner
Lower the burden on your organs like filtering organs. What do you.
01:34:11:03 – 01:34:15:06
Nathan Crane
What are your favorite what are your favorite binders?
01:34:15:06 – 01:34:27:05
Rob Besner
Well, there’s two classes. There’s the macro binder, which is generally your bentonite clay. So you’re activated charcoal. And then there is the nano binder are the small sponges.
01:34:27:12 – 01:34:29:01
Nathan Crane
The Zeolite, for example.
01:34:29:08 – 01:35:01:08
Rob Besner
Is a silicone derivative called zeolite. And so that will grab heavy metals and you have to like generally most of the the macro binders like the clays in the in the charcoals are good there are some better brands will be we advocate for a company called Silica, which is the practitioner brand Microbe formulas is their public brand. But just recently we’ve done a collaboration with Dr. Cabral and he just announced a binder that we’ve been testing.
01:35:01:08 – 01:35:29:17
Rob Besner
And it’s it’s really amazing. It’s amazing. And so we’re going to we’re going to shift towards the Dr. Cabral ultimate binder, He calls it for the macro approach or the big sponge, so to speak and then we have we have that there is a zeolite that again, silicone makes three or four different choices of zeolites, which is great ones for heavy metals, environmental toxins, ones for radiation.
01:35:29:24 – 01:35:59:22
Rob Besner
Another one they make is from for mycotoxins called Carbon C, which is by far the most powerful binder I’ve ever, ever tasted or used. And then there’s one that’s made by a company called Roots that’s called Clean Slate. And these are all choices. They weren’t great. And frankly, I don’t really advocate to do anything next and for the rest of my life, like just, you know, in the allopathic approach, right.
01:35:59:22 – 01:36:18:03
Rob Besner
You have your hypertensive they said, well, here you have to take your blood pressure medication. You’re going to be on this for the rest of your life. You know, like, give me a break. Just like yourself, I’ll do anything. The only thing I want to be on for the rest of my life is basically my my love affair that I’m having with my wife.
01:36:18:21 – 01:36:41:02
Rob Besner
So aside from that, the only thing I want to say is that in, say, is world, I think the least expensive way for you to maintain optimal health is by incorporating a binder in your daily routine every day. And it’s not just these supplements. You can do it through foods like the superfoods, like experiment spirulina in Colorado and cilantro.
01:36:41:02 – 01:36:44:20
Nathan Crane
Cilantro. And you realize cilantro is a great buy one that.
01:36:44:21 – 01:36:47:08
Rob Besner
Yeah, yeah. And let me see.
01:36:47:13 – 01:37:04:04
Nathan Crane
I think you ought to be mindful of those like at least the you know, I’ve taken activated charcoal off and on for probably 15 years and and just as a binder, you know from time to time if I’m doing a cleanse or, you know, juice cleanse or water cleanse or something like that. And it’s great to, you know, be on a binder during that time.
01:37:04:04 – 01:37:23:07
Nathan Crane
As you said, you’re you know, you’re often if you go into a cleanse or a fast, you’re often releasing large amounts or you start doing sauna every day, for example. Right? You’re Activating and releasing these large amounts of heavy metals and chemicals and toxins that are that have been often stored in fat tissues, for example, into your bloodstream, which actually make you sick.
01:37:23:07 – 01:37:49:10
Nathan Crane
So being on a binder can be a great idea. And I prefer natural binders, of course, like the ones we’re talking about. The one thing about being on something like activated charcoal every day forever is is not necessarily a great idea. I don’t think, you know, you can actually start to get clogged up on too much charcoal same as bentonite clay I think, you know, you maybe have a different viewpoint on that.
01:37:49:10 – 01:38:21:08
Nathan Crane
But I think those kinds of binders, I, I prefer to use more occasionally versus like everyday now Zeolite, I have a spray from Touchstone Essentials that I really like the background that I’ve done on the company and the purity of the product and the heavy metal heavy. Some of these things, you have to make sure that there are no heavy metals already attached to the zeolite, for example, or some of these clays that have a lot of heavy metals already attached to them because they bind heavy metals.
01:38:21:16 – 01:38:41:24
Nathan Crane
So you can actually be putting more heavy metals into your body. So, you know, the research that I’ve done on that company, I really like their spray, but that’s something, you know, four little sprays that taste like water. I don’t mind taking every day, but I mean, what are your thoughts on taking something like charcoal or bentonite clay or something like that on a daily basis?
01:38:41:24 – 01:38:43:20
Nathan Crane
Do you think it’s a certain cycle on and off?
01:38:44:11 – 01:39:12:02
Rob Besner
Well, certainly, certainly one of the potential side effects would be constipation or getting stuck a little bit. Yep. And and you know, back to detoxification in general before will treat a patient. We want to make sure that their detox pathways are opened up. Are they sweating do they poop regularly, Do they move around and is their lymphatic system active?
01:39:12:12 – 01:39:38:15
Rob Besner
So otherwise what we’re doing is we’re stirring up the pond by being the sauna and then the body’s not has no real natural way to get it out. Right. So let’s say we clear that part of it. I do think that having a binder every day is important in today’s environment, particularly an active guy like you. There are many ways to mobilize toxins besides impress on a basically any kind of activity will mobilize toxins.
01:39:38:24 – 01:40:06:01
Rob Besner
And so what I don’t I don’t spend a lot of time in the gym, but I do cycle. I try to I try to write about almost ten miles a day. And so and so when I get up at 430, I’ll do a binder before my sauna, because when I’m mobilizing the toxin, I want to have a binder present in my blood to be able to pull those toxins, combine them up so that it takes some of the sort of the heavy lifting off of my my filtering organs.
01:40:06:01 – 01:40:07:21
Nathan Crane
What do you take what do you take in the morning?
01:40:08:21 – 01:40:39:16
Rob Besner
Well, I take a cell core binder called bio toxin. But upon replacing that with Crouse, Dr. Kimbrough’s, the binder. Because I’m finding that it really, really works great. And then and generally, I would recommend a binder twice a day, once before. If you do sun in the morning, once before, just sort of for the reason I just expressed, and then once again before bedtime, because generally between the hours of 12 and four in the morning, your brain shrinks a little bit and it’s flushed with spinal fluid.
01:40:39:16 – 01:41:02:17
Rob Besner
So there’s a whole detox process that’s happening while you’re sleeping. And so I would take a binder before bed again to gather that now in the beginning. And that could be depending on how the patient might be expressing themselves, it will start off slow. It’ll be maybe one tab in the morning and one at night, and then we add advance maybe after the first couple of three weeks if they’re not getting stuck.
01:41:03:19 – 01:41:22:04
Rob Besner
And then we would go to two tabs morning and night. Now what I practice is I actually take a binder with, again, a micro dose binder before I go do my activity and so so for you and you know, when you’re going to go to the gym and people listening today, they know when they’re going for places or even getting a massage.
01:41:22:04 – 01:41:43:11
Rob Besner
Like how often have you had a massage when you got off the table and you felt a little bit like nauseous or lightheaded? That’s a detox response because they’re mobilizing toxins when they’re that when they’re moving your muscles around and adjusting you So and each time you mobilize a toxin, I think it’s important to have a binder present so it makes it easy for your body.
01:41:43:11 – 01:42:02:21
Rob Besner
Eliminate. Yeah. I’m just thinking about this. I’m just thinking about the world we’re living in today. Nathan, As we went back 50 years ago, we wouldn’t have had this discussion, but in today’s world, particularly in in an urban environment where the carbon footprint is so high. And then I wanted to make a comment earlier to you about your shoulder.
01:42:02:21 – 01:42:23:04
Rob Besner
I’m doing some research with one of the top line doctors in Wisconsin. He’s treated successfully 30,000 patients, which is off the chart. And what he’s seeing now in his clinic is that he’s getting a lot of kids that are coming in with torn ACLs and ligaments and, you know, just normal kids and from gym class and playing high school sports.
01:42:24:00 – 01:42:53:20
Rob Besner
And that raises curiosity. And he has been able to correlate the amount of glyphosate that’s in our environment now, the water, food sources and air that we’re breathing in. What glyphosate does, it actually biochemically it alters the the collagen in your body, which is about 65 to 70% of your body, is collagen. That’s creating that elasticity in your soft tissues and joints and so forth.
01:42:54:06 – 01:43:20:09
Rob Besner
And so now it’s making it rigid. And now you’ve got these young kids that are that are experiencing, you know, fairly serious injuries, joint injuries. They probably should never have had that, you know, their whole life. Again, epigenetics is the world we’re living in. And so that’s why detoxing is such an important thing to think about doing every single day And taking using binders I think is important to help.
01:43:20:09 – 01:43:23:13
Rob Besner
Once you’re mobilizing to help getting get these poisons out.
01:43:23:24 – 01:43:39:21
Nathan Crane
Yeah, I guess there is another binder that I take every day too, which is like. Like a human phobic. Yeah. Binders that is something. So I guess I was just thinking more like a bentonite clay or an activated charcoal. I tend to, like, cycle on and off those if I’m doing a big cleanse, but like a daily thing.
01:43:40:04 – 01:44:06:18
Nathan Crane
Yeah, I take a human. Like a volvic. Yeah. And then zeolite. So those kind of natural binders and then herbs in my smoothies, I’ll put, you know, different kinds of natural binding herbs as. Well, I think we can, like you said, it’s like our, our current lifestyle is people want fast food that’s, you know, incredibly hyper palatable for highly addictive tastes like sugar, you know, so much sugar and salt and oil that like you just you want more and more of it.
01:44:06:18 – 01:44:26:23
Nathan Crane
And there’s no nutrition there. There’s no vitamins, there’s no minerals amino acids, phytonutrients, the binders aren’t there, but it’s certainly full of toxins. Right. So or certain chemicals that have been used to make that food and no wonder our chronic disease proliferation is through the roof. No wonder these young kids are getting, you know, more injuries than ever before.
01:44:26:23 – 01:44:53:16
Nathan Crane
It’s like you’re not getting you know, our body needs essential vitamins and nutrients to make collagen. And if you don’t have those vitamins and nutrients every day, your body’s going have a really hard time making collagen. And so you know that in addition to the toxic burden overload, in addition to the stress, in addition to poor sleep and excess lights and chemicals and all that, so we live in this society, those of us who choose to live in it.
01:44:53:16 – 01:45:14:19
Nathan Crane
You could go be a monk in the mountains somewhere and you’re still going to be exposed to some glyphosate. Unfortunately, they found in most remote areas of rainforest, they’re still finding glyphosate in the rainwater. So that’s also really sad. I mean, one way to combat that is by organic and don’t support any, you know, conventional food that is grown with pesticides and chemicals.
01:45:14:19 – 01:45:40:22
Nathan Crane
That’s what we’ve been doing in my family for about 15 years now. And So, you know, it’s just a way of life. We buy probably 95% plus organic because we don’t want to support chemicals in our food system, in our water. And in our bodies, certainly not for myself or my children or my family. So you can you can choose to do that and companies will will follow you know, they will say, okay, the demand is there.
01:45:40:22 – 01:46:01:16
Nathan Crane
We need to make more organic food and then prices will come down. It’s pretty simple. I mean, we’ve seen it in the last decade, right? How many more organic farms and how many more companies are delivering organic? How many more people are buying organic? It’s just continuing to increase. But that’s just one solution one small solution to this huge, multifaceted problem.
01:46:01:16 – 01:46:20:00
Nathan Crane
The thing I wanted to just kind of put a pin in right there was if we choose to live in this society and be a part of it, these are all the things we need to think about doing every day to optimize our health, to help prevent and help our bodies fight against chronic disease and to, you know, live as long, healthy and pain free as we possibly can.
01:46:20:12 – 01:46:37:23
Nathan Crane
You know, that’s why I have a sauna right there, actually, an infrared sauna on the other side of this camera that I use, that I love. I love sauna, by the way. I do sauna, ice, bath, sauna. I do it right now. Do it twice a week. I do about an hour each time. So I’ll go like 25 minutes.
01:46:39:01 – 01:46:57:18
Nathan Crane
Mine gets hot. It’s like 170 degrees. It’s a wooden one and 70 degrees Fahrenheit. And so I do about 25 minutes and then I’ll go ice plunge, and then I’ll come back in and do like 30 minutes plus. Then I’ll do some breathwork in there as well. It’s it’s one of the most better than any drug for sure, you know.
01:46:58:13 – 01:46:58:24
Rob Besner
Fantastic.
01:46:59:12 – 01:47:16:20
Nathan Crane
And I do that on my, like recovery days, my rest days, and I would do it every day. It’s just, you know, the time it’s like I prioritize my time. But these things, the sauna, the light therapy, the red light therapy, the infrared, the you know, I’d love to do. I mean, we’re we’re out of time right now.
01:47:16:20 – 01:47:43:13
Nathan Crane
I’d love to do a follow up conversation with you at some point about health optimization. And, you know, in going deeper into some of these, you know, some of the things that people can do who really want to biohacking optimize their health at the highest level. We covered a lot today, which was awesome. So thank you, by the way if people want to get in touch with you, what’s the best place for them to do that?
01:47:45:03 – 01:48:18:24
Rob Besner
We have a website which is w ww dot Forrester’s t h e r a sj ecom. You can write us and support at various edgecomb. We have an active Instagram and Facebook group. We’re pretty, you know, we’re pretty accessible. You can dial in at Triple H for one six 4441 and we, you know, we’re in for an interesting group, Nathan, because one of our core principles, it’s not good enough just to make a great device and delivered on time.
01:48:19:07 – 01:48:46:17
Rob Besner
We also want to make sure that you integrate it into your lives and understand how to use it. So, so we have developed a, another division called Sarah Health, where we have active health providers, integrative functional practitioners. We have an emotional healer, we have a top culinary chef and a movement specialist that’s part of our team. And so people can kind of call in and they have challenges.
01:48:46:17 – 01:49:16:21
Rob Besner
They know they understand how to use our devices. The First call is free. And so we get everybody set up so that we understand their goals and then we give them a protocol that’ll generally take them and we track people for the first 12 weeks so that they will have enough cycle experience using that our our devices on healing pads so that if they run into any questions or whatever, we have a fake pretty active website.
01:49:17:08 – 01:49:44:07
Rob Besner
And one of my favorite things actually in the morning is to watch my Instagram page because because it amazes me how people are just so excited to use our devices and spend their life, their time of their life getting on and and showing how they use our ozone devices and our and different things that we may so so what we tried to do is maximize the time when you’re in sauna.
01:49:44:07 – 01:49:58:03
Rob Besner
So we brought in ozone and aromatherapy and guided meditation and reflexology. So in a half hour you can get out and just feel like a million bucks, just like you’ve done. Yeah, yeah. I love it’s really cool.
01:49:58:11 – 01:50:13:18
Nathan Crane
I love stacking a lot of different things together at once, so. Yeah, yeah. Robby, this was awesome, dude. Thanks for coming on the podcast. And hey, we’re getting together at a retreat next month, really live. I’m looking forward to seeing you personally. Yeah. Yeah.
01:50:14:00 – 01:50:33:22
Rob Besner
That’d be great. This team, right? Yep. Thank you for having me. Appreciate the opportunity to share some wisdom with the community. Hopefully it’ll inspire somebody and we’ll be able get more people on the path to taking more challenge, make more of their own health challenges in order to own them and do something about it. And, you know, we’re here to help.
01:50:33:22 – 01:50:49:17
Rob Besner
You don’t have to buy a device to contact us if you’re just needing to know more. Our website is very informational, you know, oriented. So just reach out. And so again, thank you for the opportunity. It’s really great. Awesome.
01:50:49:17 – 01:50:50:10
Nathan Crane
Thanks. Take care.