Access resources related to natural healing, stress reduction, and holistic living at https://nathancrane.com/ – Transform Your Health Today!

Embark on a transformative journey as we explore conquering cancer through a natural approach. Learn key insights from Pamela Chambers’ inspiring story and discover the holistic strategies that empowered her healing process.

Uncover the role of a holistic lifestyle, stress management, and dietary choices in Pamela’s successful journey to health, guided by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn’s wisdom.

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Your host, Nathan Crane, is a Certified Holistic Cancer Coach, Best-Selling Author, Inspirational Speaker, Cancer-Health Researcher and Educator, and 20X Award Winning Documentary Filmmaker with Over 15 Years in the Health Field.

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Audio Transcript

 

(This transcript was auto-generated so there may be some errors)

00:00:00:01 – 00:00:37:16
Nathan Crane
Welcome back to the podcast. I hope all of you are having an amazing new year so far. I hope the resolutions that you have set the goals and dreams you set for yourself, that you have put into a good daily action plan and you’re working towards it every single day. I know by this time of the year, a lot of people’s resolutions have kind of failed, for lack of a better word, meaning they had great goals and ambitions at the beginning of the year and they didn’t have a good daily action plan in place to fulfill those resolutions.

00:00:37:16 – 00:01:00:02
Nathan Crane
And so I would encourage you, before we get into today’s podcast, think about what you really want for your life, what you really want for your health, what you really want for your relationships, whatever it is that’s most important for you. For most people, at least in our podcast, is their physical health, but also mental, emotional, spiritual health.

00:01:00:02 – 00:01:20:23
Nathan Crane
And I’d also say take a look at what is big enough to pull you forward through the challenging times. Right. If it’s just I want to lose £20 so I can look better. For me, that’s never been a strong enough goal to keep me going to the gym. You know, I’ve always had to have something bigger than just how I look.

00:01:21:06 – 00:01:43:11
Nathan Crane
Looks is nice, you know, looking good is great. I think that’s a benefit. And for some people, I think a really small percentage of the population looks is strong enough to keep them on a healthy routine. But for me and for many others, I think you have to find something deeper and bigger, something that pulls you through the challenging times so that you can continue with your goals of going to the gym, eating healthier.

00:01:43:21 – 00:02:19:10
Nathan Crane
You know, whether it’s weight loss, it’s it’s dealing with a chronic disease like cancer. It’s improving your relationship with your spouse. It’s having more energy, less pain, less fatigue, healing your gut. And when you’re dealing with another chronic condition that you’re trying to resolve, whatever that is, find the deeper reason behind it. And that could be, look, you want to be here for your grandchildren and be able to hike with them in the mountains in your seventies, eighties, nineties, or at least be there and be in decent enough health where you can spend time with them and enjoy your time with them.

00:02:19:10 – 00:02:43:04
Nathan Crane
Be a good grandparent is certainly one of my long term goals that continues to pull me forward. But also look at someone like Ruth Heidrick, who is in her eighties. It’s ran hundreds of marathons and and Iron Man’s and has won many, many, many world records and has continued her journey of setting these small goals along the way.

00:02:43:05 – 00:03:19:02
Nathan Crane
Go run a5k, go run a ten k, you know, go run this race. That race have different kinds of experiences that you can train for and that will pull you forward to actually have a short term goal, because sometimes it’s like these long term visions and goals that can take years and years are hard to stick to. So said something in three months out, six months out, you know where you can go and experience that goal, starting, you know, stepping stones towards achieving your long term dreams and goals.

00:03:19:02 – 00:03:44:01
Nathan Crane
And really for me and I think those of us who have had a lot of success of achieving goals that we set is more about turning it into a lifestyle. You know, for me, health is a lifestyle the way that I live. And when you feel good, you eat good and and you can you have more energy and clarity and vitality in your life.

00:03:44:08 – 00:04:01:22
Nathan Crane
Then you want to continue doing those things I saw in a couple of days a week because I know what it’s doing for my health and I feel amazing when I do it. I ice bath a few days a week because I know what it’s doing for my health and I don’t feel good doing the ice bath, but I feel good afterwards.

00:04:02:04 – 00:04:27:04
Nathan Crane
You know, I exercise, I work out, I eat a nutrient dense, plant based diet. I do qigong and meditation because I know what they’re doing for my health and I know how it makes me feel, right. And so the more you do these things, the better you feel. And the more it becomes a lifestyle instead of a chore, the less you eat potato chips and the more you eat some some cooked veggies, the better you feel, the better your digestion is, the less of those potato chips you want, right?

00:04:27:11 – 00:04:49:09
Nathan Crane
So creating simple daily actions, steps that you can take each day that will continue to pull you forward towards your longer term goals. Figure out what that is for you. Leave me comments, messages, questions. If you, you know, want us to to help you dig into any of that deeper, we’d be happy to and maybe do a live Q&A with all of you.

00:04:49:09 – 00:05:14:24
Nathan Crane
But enough about that. I’m excited for our guest today on the podcast, Pamela Chambers, who has a really inspiring story of her own journey of overcoming cancer and excited for her to be on here with us and share with us what she went through and where she’s at now and how she’s helping people today. And I’m really, really looking forward to this empowering conversation.

00:05:14:24 – 00:05:17:18
Nathan Crane
So, Pamela, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

00:05:18:16 – 00:05:34:22
Pamela Chambers
Well, thank you so much for having me, Nathan. I am honored to be here. I know all that you have done and given so much information to people as far as natural approaches and how to approach mind body medicine with cancer treatment. So that’s one of my specialties.

00:05:35:22 – 00:05:40:20
Nathan Crane
So you were diagnosed with cancer when you were 20, is that right?

00:05:41:17 – 00:05:44:19
Pamela Chambers
Yes, it was in 1986.

00:05:45:07 – 00:05:47:08
Nathan Crane
What was the diagnosis and what was the prognosis?

00:05:48:02 – 00:06:23:11
Pamela Chambers
It was micro invasive cancer. And so it was back in the day where there weren’t many women at all in gynecology, and the men were the ones primarily doing obstetrics and gynecology work. So when I was diagnosed, I was pregnant. I was four months pregnant at the time, and the doctor told me that he wanted to abort the baby and he wanted to remove all my do a radical hysterectomy because he said and I was pregnant, that the hormones actually proliferate the cancer.

00:06:23:11 – 00:06:51:18
Pamela Chambers
So I said, no, I want to think about all of this. So I took my time and I thought, I just don’t want to do it. So I decided against it. And what was difficult in this process was they were the doctor was sort of sending me around to different doctors, and I’m not sure why. And the question here is that they had for me seemed very, you know, like, when did you first have sex?

00:06:51:18 – 00:07:11:21
Pamela Chambers
How many sexual partners did you have? In some ways, I started to feel like, oh, my God, I created this. You know, they were very invasive as far as my sexual practices that that somehow created cervical cancer. So I was a little confused. And the doctors they sent me to didn’t know how to do exams. I had one doctor, they said, I don’t know why they sent you there.

00:07:11:21 – 00:07:38:07
Pamela Chambers
He’s a skin doctor. So I had a painful exam and it was just a very exhausting, humiliating, degrading experience. So I just said, I don’t want to do this. I want to take my chances. So what they said is they could do a cone biopsy. And when they did the cone biopsy, they said, that will just continue to watch you since you won’t go through the procedure, you know, the radical procedure.

00:07:38:13 – 00:07:53:10
Pamela Chambers
That’s what we’ll do. But they did let me know that the cone biopsy could maybe spark a, you know, contractions and perhaps I could lose the baby if that were to happen. But I did choose to do the cone biopsy instead of the radical hysterectomy.

00:07:54:22 – 00:08:14:01
Nathan Crane
So at that time, since when did you say 1980 was when you’re diagnosed? So at that time, did you have any experience at all in, let’s just say, natural health or what what kind of confidence did you have in your own body or what was it in your decision making process that said, you know what, I don’t I don’t want to do that?

00:08:15:03 – 00:08:37:05
Pamela Chambers
Well, I think it would be a strong intuition. I don’t know what it was, but it was just, you know, it’s it’s a cancer spot on my cervix. And I thought if I have the baby, it’s going to come back on my cervix and then they could, you know, treat it then. But they didn’t say that the hormones of the pregnancy would proliferate the cancer, and they did say it was invasive.

00:08:37:16 – 00:08:56:13
Pamela Chambers
So that’s what their concerns were. And I think, too, I they did the ultrasound and I saw the baby and I couldn’t do it. And I just saw the baby looking at me with these eyes. And I thought, well, I just can’t do it. I’m going to take my chances. So that was kind of what propelled me forward.

00:08:57:02 – 00:09:29:02
Pamela Chambers
But then after that, the best thing that happened to me I don’t know, you’re younger, but I saw Phil Donahue on TV and he introduced me to Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, who wrote the book Medical Heretic. And also he wrote the book Male Malpractise. But the E was shaded, so it was kind of like malpractise malpractise, you know, but how the men treat you when you go in for treatment and things like that.

00:09:29:02 – 00:09:48:15
Pamela Chambers
And I started reading and I’m like, Oh my God, that happened to me. I know exactly what he’s talking about. When I was in session with the doctor, I asked the doctor question and I said, Well, I don’t want to do this. And he goes, he goes, Well, what medical school did you go to? You know, just the fact that I didn’t agree with his treatment.

00:09:48:23 – 00:09:55:02
Pamela Chambers
Right. Anyway, because that condescending approach, that was really difficult.

00:09:55:02 – 00:10:17:09
Nathan Crane
I mean, as a father of two, I can definitely understand that that desire to not want to abort a child like no matter what, you know what? When you see like when my daughter when I first saw the ultrasound of my daughter and you see that there’s an actual living human being that, you know, you were part of creating in my wife’s womb.

00:10:17:09 – 00:10:42:05
Nathan Crane
And you get to see the child. And it’s just like that first ultrasound is so profound and knowing that that baby’s there and alive and you know, you’re going to do whatever you can to help guide and support that baby coming into the world as a healthy human being. You know, the idea of aborting that baby is just so I could totally imagine how you thought.

00:10:42:05 – 00:11:08:22
Nathan Crane
You know what? It’s more important that I bring this baby into the world than, you know, than my own health at the moment, which is very I don’t know if everyone could feel that way. I don’t think everyone could. So I think you definitely had a high level of compassion at that time, probably a high level of emotional intelligence for a 20 year old, which is pretty, pretty commendable to think about.

00:11:08:22 – 00:11:32:21
Pamela Chambers
Yeah, it was it was very moving the ultrasound. And I certainly don’t want to make a choice for anybody else. It’s such a personal choice that you have to make. And that’s where I think my body medicine comes in place, too. If you believe in it, it’s more apt to be successful. Whatever your belief is. And I think that’s a real important piece of it.

00:11:33:04 – 00:11:54:24
Pamela Chambers
And for me, like you said, when you see those pictures in the ultrasound, it’s just and I still to this day, it’s so vivid in my brain, I can still see those baby’s eyes looking like right at me. You know, it’s yeah, it was pretty profound. And I just thought, I’m taking my chances. And I think the more we believe in something, I believed that was the right decision for me.

00:11:55:07 – 00:11:59:03
Pamela Chambers
I think it’s most likely to turn out good. And it did turn out well.

00:11:59:15 – 00:12:10:01
Nathan Crane
Yes, that’s beautiful. So so you had your baby and so you said it turned out well. So, yeah, talk a little bit about that and and then what happened with your cancer over time?

00:12:10:22 – 00:12:39:03
Pamela Chambers
Well, over time, what happened was, is after I first of all, I went to the the doctor suggested that I go to this particular doctor when I left treatment at the clinic there. So I went to this particular doctor and he delivered the baby. And at first they were saying that I needed to have a C-section because they wouldn’t want the baby going through the cancer cervix or something like that, which didn’t make any sense to me.

00:12:39:10 – 00:13:00:12
Pamela Chambers
Is it like catch you or what is it? I’m not sure. But anyway, so he did deliver the baby and it was an awful delivery was painful. I felt like the doctor didn’t know what he was doing. It wasn’t a good experience, but she was born healthy and happy, so forth and so on. And then afterwards I was discouraged with the medical community.

00:13:00:16 – 00:13:20:13
Pamela Chambers
I was just upset because of my treatment during the cancer diagnosis and then my treatment with this delivery of the baby. I said, there’s got to be a better way. So lo and behold, again, that’s when I saw Phil Donahue, the doctor, Robert Espinosa, and talking about his new book. And so I actually went to go visit with him.

00:13:20:18 – 00:13:41:19
Pamela Chambers
Oh, one more thing. After I delivered the baby, I got a letter from that doctor saying that we still recommend that you get a full radical hysterectomy after the delivery of the baby. Well, that didn’t make any sense to me. It’s like the baby is here and so I heard Dr. Mendelson on this program, Phil Donahue actually booked an appointment to go see him.

00:13:42:09 – 00:14:01:05
Pamela Chambers
So I went to go see him and I said, hey, this is what they’re recommending. And he said, That is ludicrous. He said that if cancer shows up again, it’ll be on your service. He said you can treat it, then and that will be that. But he was the only doctor that also mentioned, you know, you got to watch what you’re eating.

00:14:01:17 – 00:14:25:05
Pamela Chambers
You got to watch your stress. He brought things that no other doctor had said to me. And I was in the era where nobody really questioned doctors. And I know my mom and dad would never have dreamed to do what I did. And they were upset with me doing what I was doing. So anyway, after reading Dr. Mendelsohn’s book, I felt even more confident that I was doing the right thing.

00:14:25:18 – 00:14:30:16
Pamela Chambers
And so that kind of propelled me forward and that started the whole holistic movement for me.

00:14:32:14 – 00:15:00:18
Nathan Crane
As powerful to have a mentor, a guide, a doctor who listens to you, who understands you, who’s compassionate, who gives you some sound advice that makes logical sense, right? You brought up something I think so important that I’ve encountered for over a decade in talking to cancer patients and functional medical doctors that we have this weird underlying subconscious.

00:15:01:15 – 00:15:24:03
Nathan Crane
It’s not really a belief. It’s like a pre programed idea that I think most people aren’t fully aware of until you bring it up. And when I bring this up, people very often go, Oh, I never thought about that. But actually I can see that how it makes sense where in the 1980s the doctors were kind of treating you as if cancer was contagious.

00:15:24:03 – 00:15:47:02
Nathan Crane
Right? How many sexual partners have you had, etc., etc.. I mean, they may have been getting information to try and find out other information as well. Did you have other diseases or whatever? But anyway, then, you know, we don’t have the baby going through and and touching the cancer as it’s, you know, touching the tumor as it’s leaving your body like there’s just so many.

00:15:47:20 – 00:16:10:24
Nathan Crane
Even today, there’s this weird underlying idea, subconscious or unconscious idea that cancer is something you catch. It’s not something you make. And we treat it that way as a society. Oh, she got cancer. He got cancer, right? It’s this thing that you get. It’s not something that you make. And the truth is, it is something that we make.

00:16:10:24 – 00:16:33:09
Nathan Crane
You know, a good friend of mine, Dr. Thomas, loads a functional medical doctor, treats cancer patients every day. And, you know, he teaches patients how to stop making cancer because our bodies are making it every single day. And when it turns into a diagnosis is because it has grown out of control due to the environment in which the cells are exposed to in our bodies.

00:16:33:14 – 00:16:51:15
Nathan Crane
And so we’re making cancer. We’re not catching it. We’re not getting it. It’s not contagious. You can touch a tumor. You’re not going to get cancer from somebody else. Having cancer. And we know that consciously when you say it, but yet people still treat it as if it’s something they got. It was bad luck. You just got it.

00:16:51:15 – 00:17:22:05
Nathan Crane
It runs and you got it from your parents. You got it from your grandparents, which we know also isn’t true because most cancer is not hereditary. And through the science of epigenetics, we also know that we can turn off cancer genes. Even if you have the BRCA1 gene, for example, doesn’t mean you’re going to have breast cancer. These women that are being told to chop off their breasts to prevent getting breast cancer when they’re healthy and they have a BRCA1 gene little let’s chop off your breast and take out your uterus just because you got the gene.

00:17:22:12 – 00:17:47:18
Nathan Crane
I mean, these women are being mutilated and not being told to look. Even if you do nothing, you have a 50% chance of not getting cancer by having the gene. But if you actually implement a good, healthy epigenetic diet and lifestyle choices, you can reduce that risk drastically. And even if you get a breast cancer when you’re 60 or 70, a tumor, you know, it’s not in many cases it’s not debilitating.

00:17:47:18 – 00:18:16:12
Nathan Crane
And you can still live a normal, healthy life. This is information that people need to know somehow. You intuitively kind of knew this. I think, you know, I don’t know if you if you believe in God or higher power or, you know, divine divine energy that’s guiding you. But I do. And I believe that when we have that intuition, that intuition is coming from a higher intelligence, it’s telling us what we already know or what we need to know in that moment.

00:18:16:23 – 00:18:23:23
Nathan Crane
And the fact it’s like you already knew all of this intuitively and made the right decisions, it sounds like. Which is which is pretty incredible.

00:18:25:08 – 00:18:45:04
Pamela Chambers
Yeah. It was intuitive, you know. And like you were saying, it’s not the genes necessarily that create canvas or the environment around the genes that can create the cancer. And so, you know, with speaking after speaking to Dr. Mendelsohn, he was the first one to point that out to me in the fact that, well, what are you eating?

00:18:45:04 – 00:19:11:10
Pamela Chambers
You know, stay away from the white flour, the white pasta, the sugar, all those other things. So when I had my children, you know, they weren’t drinking soda as they were in, I already put them on a more healthy LED diet. I became more conscious of my workouts. I became more conscious of my healthy lifestyle. And also I became a voracious reader similar to you as far as cancer and all the stories out there.

00:19:11:18 – 00:19:31:22
Pamela Chambers
So I became very informed as far as, you know, yoga practice, how healthy that is. I’m a big yoga fan. So all these things I started to incorporate in my life and I think Dr. Mendelsohn for that. And when I heard he died, I mean, I cried, like, why did he die? But anyway, it was.

00:19:31:22 – 00:19:36:21
Nathan Crane
Almost he was almost 90 when he died, though it wasn’t. He was 88 or something older.

00:19:37:00 – 00:19:37:12
Pamela Chambers
And I do.

00:19:37:15 – 00:19:42:24
Nathan Crane
You know, I think he lived a pretty good long I mean, more, you know, 18 years, more than average. I think. So.

00:19:43:17 – 00:20:10:08
Pamela Chambers
Yeah. When I called, I spoke to his wife because I wanted to see him again and she said, well, he had passed away. And I said, well, what happened? And she goes, Well, he had been sick for a long time. She wasn’t specific. And I was kind of, you know, wanting to know. But what actually did happen, you know, did he have cancer and did he just kind of go about fighting it himself, letting his body fight it, you know, instead of all the treatments that maybe somebody, a doctor may have recommended?

00:20:10:08 – 00:20:11:00
Pamela Chambers
But yeah.

00:20:11:12 – 00:20:17:16
Nathan Crane
She went, Oh, actually, it looks like he died when he was 82. He had a glioblastoma, right?

00:20:18:16 – 00:20:19:24
Pamela Chambers
Yeah. That’s the brain, right?

00:20:20:12 – 00:20:21:12
Nathan Crane
That’s brain cancer. Yeah.

00:20:22:02 – 00:20:25:00
Pamela Chambers
Yeah. So I don’t know how long he lived with that.

00:20:26:10 – 00:20:59:00
Nathan Crane
I don’t know either. You know, you look into it, but I think that’s an important point that people should understand, is that, you know, not all cancer is terminal and not all cancer is debilitating and not all cancer is painful and not all cancer even has identifiable symptoms. You know? Yeah, if you have a giant tumor, a protruding, you know, out of your intestines or hitting your spine or on your joints, you know, there are times when cancer is painful for sure.

00:20:59:00 – 00:21:20:09
Nathan Crane
Bone cancer can be very painful. There’s time, you know, pressing it against your your brain stem or, you know, where like surgery could save somebody’s life. Like that’s I don’t ever want anyone to think, you know, I’m a huge number one. I’m a huge proponent. Natural medicine, holistic medicine first. But I don’t want you to think that I’m completely against conventional medicine because there is times when it can save somebody’s life.

00:21:20:19 – 00:21:48:14
Nathan Crane
But like in your case, when you learn more about what’s causing the cancer, where did it come from? How is our body making it? And then give your body a chance to actually fight the cancer using natural and holistic medicine methods without poisoning and destroying your body, then you can actually see what’s possible. And so there are many people who live decades with cancers and actually number one, don’t even know it.

00:21:48:14 – 00:22:04:06
Nathan Crane
And number two doesn’t debilitate their life until much later in their years. That doesn’t mean don’t do anything. Of course, like do everything you can and educate yourself. Educate yourself first about all the options. That’s what I encourage people to do.

00:22:05:09 – 00:22:26:20
Pamela Chambers
I agree wholeheartedly with you. I have an interesting story. I think my new book has been The Psychic Roots of Illnesses, and it helps, I think, reduce the fear of cancer. And in this book, it talks about how if you look at like let’s say you break a bone, right? And when you break that bone, the cells around it, it’s healing the bone.

00:22:26:20 – 00:22:53:18
Pamela Chambers
Correct. And those cells are very similar to what cancer cells look like. They have a large nuclei and they’re also fast replicating, but they’re very similar. So for example, the author of this book was a doctor and his son was murdered. Well, I think it was maybe two years later, he developed testicular cancer and he thought, God, did this have anything to do with the death of my son?

00:22:54:06 – 00:23:27:13
Pamela Chambers
So he went to this hospital where there were several cancer patients, and he started doing interviews and he realized that a lot of these people had trauma. Losing a child, mother, father, whatever, and other sorts of trauma, and then develop cancer later. So what he really are this is his hypothesis and conclusion was that his body was naturally trying to get healing the wound of the loss of this son by proliferating cells in his testicles to quickly produce another offspring.

00:23:27:20 – 00:23:51:00
Pamela Chambers
Right. The loss. So this was his hypothesis. And now when my clients I’ve had a couple of clients, I’ve started to see a mother, a daughter lost her mother. It’s been a year and a half now. She has breast cancer and I think this is it. It doesn’t make cancer cells seem so scary. It’s like it’s just your body trying to help you.

00:23:51:09 – 00:24:14:10
Pamela Chambers
Your bodies help you have another baby or these kinds of things if you’ve lost a child. So for me, it’s a lot less fearful when you get cancer and also makes you feel like, well, I can fix this, let’s resolve some of the grief that I’ve been through. Let’s get a support group. All of these are beneficial and help healing the wound that you’ve just encountered.

00:24:14:10 – 00:24:55:17
Nathan Crane
Yeah, that’s so powerful. And that story for people don’t know that you’re sharing of the doctor and his son being killed. That’s doctor right, Gerhard Hammer from Germany. And that medicine is called German New Medicine. And I’ve studied it extensively and I’ve actually talked to German doctors who have studied extensively and implement it with their patients. And so there’s a lot of case studies that what he discovered is true, where you resolve the emotional trauma of the loss of a loved one or emotional trauma in your own life, something that happened to you or to someone close to you, and the cancer goes away.

00:24:55:23 – 00:25:20:20
Nathan Crane
There are also numerous case studies where somebody does that and the cancer doesn’t go away and they don’t do anything else about it. And then the cancer takes over their whole body and kills them. So, you know, because part of that, the end point of that German new medicine is the part the people I think have to be careful of, because part of it is as the cancer continues to grow and so you have a tumor.

00:25:20:20 – 00:25:48:23
Nathan Crane
I saw a picture of a woman with the breast tumor that just spread all over her whole body, the tumor in the flesh. And it was you know, it just continued. And part of that practice, part of that theory is this is necessary in the healing, because before things get better, they have to get worse. Well, by the time that that got so worse and she didn’t do any surgery or anything that could have helped reduce that cancer from spreading so profoundly.

00:25:48:23 – 00:26:07:06
Nathan Crane
I mean, this woman’s dead now. I mean, there’s no there’s just nothing anybody could do for her at that point. And so I think people I think it can be taken too far think German, that new medicine can be taken too far. I’m certainly not the expert in it, but I’ve talked to experts in it, doctors who work with cancer patients every single day.

00:26:07:18 – 00:26:35:18
Nathan Crane
And I do think also there is a tremendous amount of validity to in Germany medicine as well, specifically in the emotional healing aspect. And we know this through many other studies and research as well, that when we have a trauma childhood adverse event, the loss of a loved one, addiction, a family member in jail, any kind of trauma in childhood or adult that we don’t know how to fully process.

00:26:35:18 – 00:27:00:18
Nathan Crane
It gets stored energetically in the body. Our nervous systems produces neuropeptides that can get stuck in various organs and lead to chronic inflammation. That chronic inflammation is one of the known causes of cancer and so we have chronic inflammation, you know, in an organ or a part of your body for 20 or 30 years. It’s damaging to cells in the mitochondria leading to cancer because we haven’t resolved that emotion.

00:27:00:18 – 00:27:28:11
Nathan Crane
We know through the studies of Kaiser Permanente in the nineties that three or more childhood adverse events that you’ve had any of these traumas in your life, your life is shortened by 20 years and your risk of cancer and other chronic diseases go up substantially if we don’t resolve these things. So I love that, you know, you’ve been researching this and focusing this on on for yourself and for your for the people you’re helping in the book you’re writing.

00:27:28:11 – 00:28:01:09
Nathan Crane
Because I did a whole documentary series on this called The Missing Link, which is all about that underlying cause of pretty much all disease, which is getting to the root cause of our emotion, health and well-being. And if we resolve that and we find peace and contentment and joy and happiness and fulfillment and generosity in our lives, then very often, more often than not and there are many, many, many case studies on this, the body gets into a parasympathetic nervous system state where it can do what is designed to do and heal itself.

00:28:01:20 – 00:28:08:14
Nathan Crane
And, you know, I think it’s such such a valuable thing. It’s not easy, but it’s important.

00:28:09:14 – 00:28:13:10
Pamela Chambers
It is. And one of the tools that uses EMDR.

00:28:13:15 – 00:28:14:23
Nathan Crane
Yeah, beautiful.

00:28:15:11 – 00:28:17:21
Pamela Chambers
Very effective tool in helping trauma.

00:28:18:06 – 00:28:20:07
Nathan Crane
Talk about what EMDR is for a moment, please.

00:28:21:00 – 00:28:44:21
Pamela Chambers
I would love to, because it’s very powerful and I’ve seen it work very well in my office. EMDR as a tool. If you’ve heard of REM sleep, REM sleep is rapid eye movements. So when we’re dreaming, our eyes are darting back and forth quickly underneath our eyelids. And what that does is it helps us process traumatic events. And so because dreaming, they say, is our subconscious mind, right, kind of going to work.

00:28:45:06 – 00:29:08:24
Pamela Chambers
So EMDR forces the bilateral stimulation of the brain, which is either by having them follow our fingers, which is, you know, the EMDR process, or you can do tapping, you know, tapping the knees one by one. That’s another method to be able to do bilateral stimulation in the brain. So both sides of the brain can communicate with each other because what happens during trauma?

00:29:08:24 – 00:29:29:19
Pamela Chambers
Sometimes thoughts and ideas get stuck in our brain and we don’t know what those are. Okay, the event is over, but the only thing that bothers us is the thoughts linked to the events. But what are those thoughts? Right. Sometimes they’re buried underneath there. So he MDR relaxes you. Why? Both hemispheres of the brain communicate with each other?

00:29:29:22 – 00:29:49:03
Pamela Chambers
Well, when she came in to see me, she said, I don’t know what happened. You know, my kids are doing great. She said, I’m a mess. I can’t sleep, I can’t eat. I don’t know what’s going on. Well, during the MDR, what we uncovered, which she didn’t realize was in there, she felt badly that she didn’t give her four year old baby attention.

00:29:49:14 – 00:30:03:15
Pamela Chambers
He was hurt. The two year old was hurt badly. And so we rushed him off. So she had to satisfy that guilt she felt by speaking to her four year old son. But she didn’t know that thought was in there unless through the MDR.

00:30:04:05 – 00:30:32:13
Nathan Crane
Mm. Yeah, that’s powerful. I’ve talked with a number of cancer conquerors, people who’ve overcome cancer like yourself, using more natural, holistic approaches who have also sworn by EMDR as really is a really powerful emotional healing aspect of their healing journey. So I know it’s a it’s a powerful tool and pretty accessible, you know, anywhere most people are in it.

00:30:33:01 – 00:30:45:11
Pamela Chambers
They have a whole MDR network, you know, where people can get online imgur.com in New York and you can find people who work with the MDR in your area. So it’s very accessible, like you said. Yes.

00:30:45:18 – 00:31:18:22
Nathan Crane
So you were diagnosed when you were one is 1980, you decided not to follow the conventional approach of radical hysterectomy and surgery and so forth. You said you changed your diet. You started focusing on other areas of your life. Two questions. The first part is how long before you were diagnosed basically cancer free? How many years or what year was that?

00:31:18:22 – 00:31:26:02
Nathan Crane
And then number two, go into depth into some of the things that you did for yourself during that period.

00:31:27:12 – 00:31:41:24
Pamela Chambers
Well, let’s see, I was diagnosed. So the five year mark is the one may lead you to write with the after diagnosis of cancer. They say after five years, all your cells have reproduced. And so you’re you know, they deem you cancer free after five years.

00:31:42:02 – 00:32:00:03
Nathan Crane
Well, they call you a cancer for the five year term is basically they call you a cancer survivor. So anyone who’s called a cancer survivor, whether you still have cancer or not, as long as you’ve lived past the five year mark of diagnosis, you’re called a cancer survivor. Even if your cancer is still growing, you’re considered a cancer survivor.

00:32:00:03 – 00:32:28:06
Nathan Crane
I really think they came up with that terms. My belief, I don’t have evidence for it. I really think they came up with that term because of the so-called war on cancer from Reagan. You know, that’s been going for 50 plus years, has yielded very, very, very poor results for cancer. And we’re still seeing cancer skyrocketing and we’re still seeing, you know, people suffering from cancer tremendously, even while following the best conventional advice.

00:32:28:15 – 00:32:49:03
Nathan Crane
Again, this is my belief. I think they came up with the five year survival rate to make people feel like, hey, you’re doing a good job if you survive five years with cancer, your cancers survivor you made it doesn’t matter. Quality of life doesn’t matter. If you get chemotherapy, radiation, your immune system is wrecked. Now you have autoimmune disease and leaky gut, chronic fatigue and joint pain.

00:32:49:03 – 00:33:12:03
Nathan Crane
None of those things matter, which I think is wrong. I think we should look at quality of life as well as extension of life, but, you know, what I consider is probably more important is what’s your quality of life? In addition to the years that you’ve lived? Have you lived two more years? But you’re quality of life improved and you had a great two more years.

00:33:12:03 – 00:33:34:15
Nathan Crane
You know, that’s that’s a win in some cases. In your case, this is 44 years later and you’re still alive and healthy and helping people, which is a mega, mega win, obviously. So you’re not a cancer survivor, really? You’re cancer conqueror in my mind. But yeah, I just want to clarify that for people because there’s kind of a misconception out there about it.

00:33:36:03 – 00:34:08:10
Pamela Chambers
There really is. And, you know, so once you get to that five year mark, you feel kind of like you, you know, I did it, but I did go on and still a voracious reader as far as I became a counselor, I became a life coach. And I work with cancer patients. I worked with a nonprofit group called Run, Girls Run and I did workshops on them after them with mind body medicine and then continued on my own healthy journey as far as the right foods, you know, the the pillars of our destiny.

00:34:08:10 – 00:34:38:19
Pamela Chambers
Right? Eat, right, renew, right. Drink. Well, let’s see, there’s a couple more, but you know those those just taking care of yourself is so vital to feeling alive and also to quality of life is extremely important to me. And I love conventional medicine. Like you said, you go in with bleeding profusely. You want conventional medicine, you go in and you have a broken bone.

00:34:38:19 – 00:35:04:21
Pamela Chambers
I’m going to the doctor quickly. They just don’t understand the chronic illnesses that well. I don’t think they’re taught well in school. The pharmaceutical industry runs them. And, you know, doctors did even create in that book, you know, the psychic roots of illness. They had said that the language that they use keeps that elitist language. Instead of arthritis, they could just say joint inflammation, right?

00:35:04:21 – 00:35:29:01
Pamela Chambers
And then the client might ask, well, what causes are inflammation of joints? But if it’s just arthritis, it’s a little more skeptical. So you don’t question it as much and then it treat it with maybe pharmaceuticals or something along that line. So the chronic illnesses, they haven’t had a lot of insight to, I feel personally. But the other areas, they’re terrific.

00:35:30:06 – 00:35:42:24
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. So when did you have any follow up scans and things like that? And where is your I mean, are you no evidence of disease today? Is there still a little tumor there? What you know, when did you discover.

00:35:43:11 – 00:36:04:23
Pamela Chambers
No evidence of disease at all? I did have a hysterectomy due to the thickening of the lining of my uterus, which was a few years ago. It was interesting to me because at the time when I great conventional medicine was there, I needed it, you know, they were terrific. So I did have it removed a couple of years ago.

00:36:05:10 – 00:36:07:08
Pamela Chambers
And while they. I was.

00:36:07:20 – 00:36:09:15
Nathan Crane
Did they find any cancer at that time?

00:36:10:14 – 00:36:37:07
Pamela Chambers
No. Yeah. So no, it was just an enlarged uterus. So what they did do is they when I was in the emergency room afterwards, about two weeks afterwards, I started bleeding. Okay? So it was kind of like a hemorrhaging. So I went to the doctor, this obscure sort of it looked like a very or hospital, but I couldn’t have had better treatment.

00:36:37:08 – 00:37:02:13
Pamela Chambers
You know, they had, you know, a lot of homeless people were in the lobby and there were a lot of, you know, maybe some drug addicts. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience. I couldn’t have had nicer people and they just treated me beautifully. And I ended up doing well afterwards. Well, they did the CT scan right where they run the the blue ink through your veins to see maybe where the bleeding was coming from.

00:37:02:13 – 00:37:24:17
Pamela Chambers
But it was obvious it was from the hysterectomy that I had had where the bleeding was coming from. So what they did is the gynecologists there discovered that there was something the stitches had come loose from a vein, but when they did the CT scan, they noticed a small nodule in my lung, right as they called it, a small nodule.

00:37:24:17 – 00:37:50:02
Pamela Chambers
Nodule on the outside of the lung. So afterwards I went to go see the lung specialist and he said, Well, I really don’t want to do a biopsy because he felt that that would be too risky. He didn’t think it was that much of a big deal. And then he said, But I want to have you do this blood test and they’re going to come to your house to do it.

00:37:50:16 – 00:38:11:14
Pamela Chambers
And they’re going to look at all these markers to see the possibility of that turning into cancer, what could happen. And all of a sudden, they started to feel the tentacles of the medical community started to come around me. I mean, if you look hard enough, you can find a lot of stuff, you know? And I thought, what kind of test is this?

00:38:11:20 – 00:38:35:16
Pamela Chambers
I thought he was doing his own research, which it could have been, I don’t know. But it just didn’t seem right to me. And I says, Nah, I left out of it, so I didn’t want to do it. And then in reading that book, you know, the Psychic Roots of Illness, he said that when you fear death, the first thing to show up is a nodule on your lung, take your bodies trying to get more air.

00:38:35:16 – 00:38:56:07
Pamela Chambers
It feels like it’s going to die. So I was wondering, could it happen that fast? You know, I die by bleeding. I don’t know how quickly things like that can happen, but who knows anyway? And a couple of years later, no, I ended up going in for I had chest pains and I thought, oh, come on, maybe I’m having a heart attack.

00:38:57:09 – 00:39:02:10
Pamela Chambers
So I went in and they did do a chest scan and there was nothing on my chest x rayed. So no nodule, nothing.

00:39:02:10 – 00:39:29:20
Nathan Crane
So wow. So it came and then it went. You know, I think that’s that’s such a good point that we live in society today where we’re conditioned to run to the doctor, to the hospital every time we got a little anything. And I, I know of so many people and I’ve heard of so many people who every time their kid’s sick, they got cold, flu, whatever, run them to the hospital or run to the family doctor.

00:39:30:16 – 00:39:46:03
Nathan Crane
And, you know, obviously, as a parent, you want to take care of your kids the best that you can. But that’s what happened to me. I mean, you know, my mom obviously loved me and wanted to take care of me. So every time I was sick as a kid, go to the doctor. Doctor checks out or strep throat.

00:39:46:03 – 00:40:11:11
Nathan Crane
This whatever antibiotics promote antibiotics, take those for a week, ten days, so they’re gone. And then you’re fine. Nobody told us anything about diet and nutrition, about, you know, enhancing my immune system, about good sleep, you know, about anything. And so I was sick all the time as a kid. I was every time a sick go, the family doctor, get the meds, go home, take the meds.

00:40:11:11 – 00:40:38:01
Nathan Crane
And that’s the solution. It wasn’t until I was, you know, 18, 19, 20, and I changed my life and really started focusing on health and research and learning how to take care of my body. That I just made that decision right there. No more pharmaceuticals, pain meds, not even an ibuprofen and have not touched any of that since I actually ruptured my AC joint probably 12, 15 years ago.

00:40:38:09 – 00:41:01:08
Nathan Crane
Playing basketball went in, they gave me a sling and and a and some hydrocodone. And I was in so much pain and I hadn’t taken anything for whatever it was seven, eight, ten years by that point. Not even an ibuprofen, nothing. And I took one hydrocodone. I got so sick from it, nauseous. I just threw away the whole prescription and that was it.

00:41:01:08 – 00:41:21:12
Nathan Crane
I just dealt with the pain. And, you know, there are some life saving medications. I want to put that out there. But for most things that people experience today, a cold or flu or a sinus infection, an earache, we nature has everything we need. My kids getting earache, put some garlic and mole and oil in there is gone in like 24 hours.

00:41:21:22 – 00:42:06:00
Nathan Crane
You know, they start getting sicker. There’s a lot of stuff going around at school, start getting cough, whatever. We just double up on the vitamin C, add in some some some zinc, some additional Echinacea, garlic and other natural antivirals, antibacterials and add in the sauna and all of a sudden, boom, you’re good to go. You know, in a few days it’s like we have to reeducate ourselves and our children and our future generations that health is within ourselves and health is within our cells, and health is within our mind, as you’re talking about, so much of disease is actually directly related to stress.

00:42:06:09 – 00:42:33:12
Nathan Crane
And stress comes from the mind. Stress comes from worrying about the past and thinking about the fear of the future, something that’s never happened yet and something that happened long ago. Until we learn to live in the present moment and learn to love ourselves and learn to practice being peaceful in stressful situations. Which is one reason I loved ice baths, by the way, is because you get into a stressful situation and you control your autonomic nervous system through your breathing.

00:42:33:12 – 00:42:53:07
Nathan Crane
You learn to be peaceful in a really stressful environment. Until we learn how to do that as a society, we’re just going to see this disease. Diseases continue to skyrocket, which is not good for anybody except big business, you know, except big pharma, big hospitals, you know, big government is great for them. They they make a lot of money when we’re sick.

00:42:53:18 – 00:43:01:08
Nathan Crane
But if we want to be healthy and take care of ourselves, we’ve got to learn this stuff and implement it and share it with our children.

00:43:02:14 – 00:43:23:13
Pamela Chambers
You are so right. I mean, pain is a lot of times pain is stuck energy. Right. And that’s why massage and yoga is so beneficial. It’s stuck energy. But like you said, we’re not going to die from pain. We can get through it. It won’t kill us, but we will get through it. It may not be easy. What do they say when you’re walking through hell?

00:43:23:13 – 00:43:34:23
Pamela Chambers
Just keep walking. But anyway, we will get through it. Pain doesn’t kill, but like Deepak Chopra is spiritual guru. I call him. I don’t know if you’re familiar with him, but.

00:43:34:24 – 00:43:36:05
Nathan Crane
I am familiar with him. Yeah.

00:43:36:17 – 00:44:03:16
Pamela Chambers
I see. He said the best pharmacy we have is right here. Inside our body is the best pharmacy we have. And I think he’s right. I mean, thinking for people during stressful situations, being able to lift car is for people. And I mean, how can they do that? When I got in, I was in a plane crash. When I got in a plane crash, I don’t remember feeling pain, you know, the bodies and I wasn’t it a while before people came to me to rescue me?

00:44:03:24 – 00:44:14:15
Pamela Chambers
I don’t remember the pain, you know, I don’t. I didn’t. So my body must have somehow was able to keep that some relief. So, anyway.

00:44:14:19 – 00:44:32:03
Nathan Crane
Wait, so what happened? Tell me about this plane crash. That’s great. I think. I don’t know if I’ve ever met anybody who survived a plane crash. Or maybe. Maybe you’re the second person I’ve talked to. I can’t. It’s like I have a faint memory of somebody. I may have watched them or talked to them, but I’m really, really interested.

00:44:32:03 – 00:44:33:12
Nathan Crane
Tell me about this plane crash.

00:44:34:21 – 00:44:55:12
Pamela Chambers
Well, I was 35 years old at the time, and I was there there were three people in the plane and I was the only survivor. And they were somewhat goofing off. They were flying low, which is against FAA regulations. Correct. We had friends on the ground and they were buzzing friends, so to speak, down on the ground, which is illegal.

00:44:55:20 – 00:45:20:16
Pamela Chambers
That’s not good, which I didn’t know. And anyway, we clipped the wires, the electrical wires that supposed to fly low. So with that, the plane came tumbling down and the work or watching it. And when they saw me, they said I was upside hanging upside down with the seatbelt still around my waist and the blood was profusely coming down.

00:45:20:16 – 00:45:43:01
Pamela Chambers
You know, whenever you have head wounds, they bleed a lot. And I was choking on my blood as I was hanging upside down. But they were able to kind of save by lifting my head up and giving me, you know, Airways to breathe because I was gasping for air, so to speak. And the rescue crew, crew arrived. People asked me, Well, what do you remember now?

00:45:43:01 – 00:46:04:13
Pamela Chambers
I don’t remember the crash. They said, I went to a neuropsychologist and he said it would take it takes 7 seconds for your brain to take something in to stop it and short term memory. So I had a concussion. So I imagine that took any he said, I’ll never remember. He said that you would never put it into a short term memory.

00:46:04:13 – 00:46:45:09
Pamela Chambers
That’s what he told me. But my fiancee died in that crash. And afterwards, the recovery, emotional recovery was brutal. The physical not so bad because I was in pretty good shape when it happened. And the doctor told me when I came in to the emergency room, he said I had sign of paralysis because there were a bunch of that the spinal cord or the spinal bone’s smooshed, crushed, and the fragments shot back into the spinal fluid was so he said they were touch and go with as far as paralysis.

00:46:45:09 – 00:47:04:04
Pamela Chambers
But he did say that he felt my muscles in my back, supported my back when bone smooshed. So I don’t know if that’s true, but that was his suspicion is why the spinal cord did snap. But other reason was in good shape. So I was a weightlifter. I still am a weightlifter.

00:47:04:04 – 00:47:10:05
Nathan Crane
But do you have any long term complications, damages from that?

00:47:11:00 – 00:47:35:22
Pamela Chambers
Actually, no, I don’t. And I think one of well, obviously, yes, I have a little more pain my back maybe than the average person. I’m not sure. But I, I suffered quite a few injuries, you know, broken bones come home, fractures, concussion and so forth and so on. But the beauty of it was that they had just about the technology where you take you don’t give them those casts and leave them on you.

00:47:36:07 – 00:48:10:04
Pamela Chambers
You give them the cast and they remove them and start you right away exercising. Right. So I had broken both my ankles. So what they did is they removed the casts and started working on them. And also I had a cast around my waist which they were able to take that off and make me work exercises. So I started working out right away and it was the only thing too that saved my emotional health because I was stuck in my bed for until somebody would come to put my braces back on, I couldn’t get up.

00:48:10:04 – 00:48:19:07
Pamela Chambers
So anyway, it was a rough road of recovery. And when I realized emotional is much harder to recover from than physical pain.

00:48:19:23 – 00:48:50:07
Nathan Crane
So that’s that’s a really incredible point I want to point out, is the fact that you were a weightlifter and the doctor believe because your muscles in your back were strong, it actually prevent you from becoming paralyzed. And there are there’s a lot of evidence that supports that with fractures in broken bones, especially as people age in the seventies and eighties and nineties, that when you do resistance training and weight training, it’s that pressure.

00:48:50:16 – 00:49:17:21
Nathan Crane
It’s that resistance and pressure on the bones and on the musculoskeletal system that actually determines whether you’re going to die from literally just a fall falling and breaking your hip or you going to live and be strong and recover from that is how much muscle you have and how dense your bones are. And bone density actually has a lot more to do with resistance to the musculoskeletal system like weight training.

00:49:17:21 – 00:49:43:22
Nathan Crane
Or if somebody lives in Sardinia, Italy, in a blue zone, for example, and they walk miles and miles a day and they carry buckets of water or, you know, bags of food, for example, up and down hills they’re putting weight on their bodies are carrying stones for their gardens and different things. They’re constantly carrying things and putting that positive stress, that or medic stressor on the body.

00:49:44:08 – 00:50:07:20
Nathan Crane
These people are not dying from broken hips and falling and breaking bones and things like that. They’re actually living 80, 9000 years plus because they do some form of resistance training consciously or unconsciously, you know, just because their life demands it or you’re actually going to the gym and strengthening your body. So as you age, it’s essential, as you know.

00:50:07:20 – 00:50:30:21
Nathan Crane
But a lot of people don’t. As you age, it’s really, really essential that we do resistance training. You don’t have to be lifting hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of weight in your sixties and seventies or eighties. It’s not essential. What is essential is that you put that resistance, load the load bearing weight on your musculature skeletal system, which is why squats, back squats and front squats.

00:50:31:02 – 00:51:00:09
Nathan Crane
This is why, you know, bench press and straight press. This is why anything that’s using your your entire structure to strengthen is so good for you. Even if it’s lightweight or even if it’s just bands, you’re just using rubber bands, but you’re creating that resistance is incredibly beneficial. It’s shown to increase lifespan, decrease all cause mortality, increase bone density, increase muscle, more muscle you have on your body.

00:51:00:15 – 00:51:18:00
Nathan Crane
The more insulin sensitive you are, which means the less likely you’re going to have diabetes and other chronic diseases. So it’s such an important point that you were, you know, taking care of yourself at 35 and and survived that plane crash, which I think is a miracle. Really.

00:51:19:08 – 00:51:55:23
Pamela Chambers
Yeah. It’s if you think of the journey to here I was at 20 with cancer right realize the importance of taking care of my health. Yeah. Making sure I incorporate work out in my daily life. I incorporate meditation, I incorporate yoga, I do all of these things. So this is where cancer can be a gift, right? It can open us up to new areas of taking care of ourselves and learning about how do we make our environment, how are good for our gene pool.

00:51:55:23 – 00:52:04:00
Pamela Chambers
Right. You know, we don’t mind about Jesus. We want to make sure we keep a nice environment to ward off disease.

00:52:04:21 – 00:52:11:08
Nathan Crane
Absolutely So you said the emotional healing part was much harder than the physical for you. And why was that?

00:52:12:18 – 00:52:33:11
Pamela Chambers
My fiance. He died in that crash. Yeah, so it was the loss of him. And then I also knew the other man who died in the crash. And it was just so tough because I would stuck with all my thoughts. I mean, my the gym training and getting out for rehab was the thing that saved me. But I didn’t have a job.

00:52:34:04 – 00:52:57:01
Pamela Chambers
I in transition, I didn’t have a job. I was by myself. My kids were going off to college. So it was kind of a stressful time. But the emotion all impact. You know, you thank God for first because I suffered a concussion, I couldn’t read, I couldn’t focus, I couldn’t watch TV and I move around for a distraction.

00:52:57:01 – 00:53:15:03
Pamela Chambers
So I was left with all these thoughts, you know, swirling around, how am I going to survive? What am I going to do with my life? You know, I’ve got to find a job. I the first job I went to, I got hired on the first job I went to. After 2 hours, I left in tears. I’m like, Oh my God, is this my life now?

00:53:16:02 – 00:53:37:24
Pamela Chambers
So anyway, it was just a really hard struggle to lose so much and not have anything tangible to hang on to. I didn’t have a job to go to. My kids were leaving and in the busy parts of their lives. And so it felt pretty lonely. But I had some good friends and they saved me. My friends.

00:53:37:24 – 00:53:53:17
Nathan Crane
What emotional practices did you implement at that time that you think really helped you, that your friends saved you? But were there other things that you were doing? Was EMDR or tapping even with other things that you felt really contributed to your emotional healing?

00:53:54:12 – 00:54:24:06
Pamela Chambers
Actually, after I started to feel a little better than Beth’s thing was, I felt I was touched by some spiritual angels because I do believe in a higher power. And people came to me and in different ways that helped me get through things. But also I started to study life after death. Then what happens in the mediums I love the mediums that long time in media, you know, these sort of things became very attractive to me.

00:54:24:06 – 00:54:56:22
Pamela Chambers
And I do believe that people can communicate to the dead. I ran into a psychic and the psychic told me things that I don’t know how she would have ever known, but I realized that my fiance was alive for a while. She she knew the psychic knew that we were in a plane crash. She also knew that I had always been thinking that I had a really good friend in high school and I thought, if he’s in heaven, he should not in heaven.

00:54:56:22 – 00:55:19:19
Pamela Chambers
I don’t really believe in hell. But in the higher universe. If he should meet my friend from high school, they would get along really well. Well, the psychic said, Oh, he’s with somebody in heaven and he has the same name as him. And that was true. I mean, how could you realize that? So cool. But some of the things that she shared with me, you just wouldn’t know anyway.

00:55:20:04 – 00:55:25:13
Pamela Chambers
So I do believe it. It made my belief stronger. And there’s something after we die.

00:55:26:21 – 00:55:48:03
Nathan Crane
You know, there’s something to be said about near-death experiences. NDE is when people share their near-death experience. You can read them in many books. And many people have come out over the years and shared, you know, when they basically when their body completely died and they left. And some of these cases, you know, they were in the hospital.

00:55:48:03 – 00:56:08:06
Nathan Crane
And this is documented proof that their their heart stopped and they were dead for 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 8 minutes in some cases. And their soul basically leaves their body and goes to, you know, the light. And they experience they talk about they all talk about the same thing, right? They all talk about the same exact experience.

00:56:08:06 – 00:56:30:12
Nathan Crane
Oh, I saw all the people that that had already passed before my aunt, my grandma, my parents, etc. They were I felt pure love and bliss. It was ecstasy. I felt like this was felt like this was heaven. It was pure light. I sense there was God there, right? Every single person who shares their near-death experience has the same experience.

00:56:30:24 – 00:56:51:10
Nathan Crane
And when they come back, they all share the same thing as well that I, I was given a choice to stay there, which I wanted to, because it was so beautiful and there was no pain and it was just the most amazing thing. But I knew I had X-Y-Z to do. I knew I had work to do on the planet.

00:56:51:10 – 00:57:19:11
Nathan Crane
I knew I had to come back and help my child do this right. They all have the same story of coming back to the earth to fulfill a destiny or a purpose that they weren’t ready yet to to to not fulfill. And, you know, one or two people sharing that story would be interesting. But when you have like hundreds and hundreds of people have the exact same experience all over the world, different cultures, different beliefs, different religions, different theologies, and they all have the same experience.

00:57:20:08 – 00:57:50:24
Nathan Crane
How can you deny that that is something miraculous beyond just this human physical experience? I too, like you, believe that there is a you know, a universal heavenly experience beyond this life. I also don’t believe there’s like a physical hell that bad people go to and get condemned and burn for life. Because, like, how could you have an all loving, all knowing, all compassionate, all caring, God tell you, Oh, sorry, you didn’t you didn’t live up to the muster.

00:57:50:24 – 00:58:09:06
Nathan Crane
You weren’t good enough. You made too many mistakes. I love you, but I’m going to send you to hell to burn and rot in flames and disease and die in pain. But I love you. You know, George Carlin does that bit. And it’s the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. I used to like, how could you have that? You know, that love, pure love and send people to suffer.

00:58:09:06 – 00:58:31:04
Nathan Crane
I just don’t I don’t believe that either. I think we create our our hell on earth. I think that’s what the Bible was speaking about. You see it every day. I lived in hell on earth as a teenager. Pure, pure hell on earth. People in war are living in hell. People who are born in poverty stricken, disease stricken countries with no food and are raped and molested and murdered.

00:58:31:04 – 00:58:56:10
Nathan Crane
That is hell. We’re creating hell on earth. But we also can create heaven. We can also create heaven on earth. And I do think there is something miraculous beyond this physical experience as well. But it’s not something that I think we should go chasing. You know, I think we should live our best lives here, the best that we can with integrity and honesty and love and kindness and compassion to ourselves and to others.

00:58:56:19 – 00:59:01:17
Nathan Crane
Try to create heaven here on Earth. And then when we leave this body, we’ll really see what the next dimension is all about.

00:59:02:20 – 00:59:34:11
Pamela Chambers
Exactly. We should be excited, not fearful of death. We should be able to take me. What will it do? What about? You reminded me of one of the things that helped me move on as well. I’d say one of my spiritual angels that were there. My friend and I were talking about. We had gone to California and we were talking about this book that I had read, and we got on a plane and there was this very exotic woman and I we were sitting next to her and I and she was reading that same book and I’m like, Oh my God, you’re reading that book.

00:59:34:11 – 00:59:56:04
Pamela Chambers
What did you think? And she said, Well, I always thought it was a little crazy because when I was younger, I, I could hear my dead my dead father talking to me and she goes, but then I read this book and I feel like, gosh, I’m not crazy. Maybe I have this guilt. And she was talking about her husband that she divorced, that he was physically abusive.

00:59:56:04 – 01:00:16:09
Pamela Chambers
And she said and then I realized what a gift gave me. He gave me the courage to be able to stand on my own two feet and to get away from that. I mean, and her thought process was so unique. And then when I was sitting there, so wonderful, I want you to talk to when you talk to my fiancee who died and she goes, well, you know what she said?

01:00:16:12 – 01:00:38:01
Pamela Chambers
I said, I know we learn stuff when we go through in tragedy. The greatest gift is what can we learn from this tragedy? How can we grow from this tragedy? And she looked at me and she said, you know, she said, you’re not going to grow until you let go. And I’m like, What do you mean you can’t do you won’t talk to you know?

01:00:38:01 – 01:01:00:19
Pamela Chambers
So anyway, I thought that was quite profound. And she you know, it is true to some extent, because the definition of grief is to let go of it doesn’t mean you let go of memories, but you let go of the physical presence of the being in your life and you have adapted to a new being in your life with that person in out of the physical realm.

01:01:00:19 – 01:01:02:18
Pamela Chambers
But in another dimension.

01:01:03:24 – 01:01:28:18
Nathan Crane
Yeah, there’s a spiritual practice in Buddhism that I love very much that I think misunderstand, which is non-attachment. And people think of non-attachment as kind of callous. Oh, I don’t I don’t love that person. I’m not attached to them. So if I have if I’m not attached to them, I don’t have the attachment to them, the mental emotional attachment to somebody means you don’t love them.

01:01:28:18 – 01:01:57:12
Nathan Crane
In fact, it’s the opposite. The practice of non-attachment means that you have pure love for them and the pure love for them too. True love for them means you allow them to be themselves and you allow them to express themselves and you show them true non-attached love for themselves and for yourself. And it’s the attachment that causes our own mental, emotional suffering as the attachment of that husband or the attachment of that experience.

01:01:57:12 – 01:02:18:22
Nathan Crane
We’re still attached to it. That person who did me wrong 20 years ago, that resentment you have for your parents, who treated you poorly as a child or abused you, you know the judgment that you have for your neighbor who smoked cigarets and drinks alcohol, that’s attachment. That’s mental, emotional, energetic attachment to things that are primarily out of our control.

01:02:18:22 – 01:02:45:07
Nathan Crane
And so we are literally causing our own suffering by being attached to. So the practice of non-attachment is actually is a practice of compassion is a practice of of love. And it’s a challenging practice for sure. But I think it’s it’s worthwhile. The more that we can practice and cultivate that and realize, all right, something’s happening over here with with this person, my judgment towards them, my resentment, my feelings.

01:02:45:19 – 01:03:14:08
Nathan Crane
And that’s causing me suffering. So the awareness is my feelings towards that person or experience is causing my own suffering. And so I need to do is detach myself from that experience and create a new perspective about the situation or the person. And oftentimes that leads us to realize we need to forgive, right? We need to forgive them for the wrongdoings.

01:03:14:08 – 01:03:32:02
Nathan Crane
We need to forgive ourselves for our own wrongdoings. Done a lot of bad shit in my life early on as a teenager. Didn’t know what I didn’t know. I had made a lot of mistakes, hurt a lot of people, hurt myself a lot. I had to forgive and a lot of people hurt me. I had to forgive them and I had to forgive myself.

01:03:32:16 – 01:04:12:11
Nathan Crane
And if you don’t ever learn to do that, you will have all of this continuous suffering which is not happening to you. It’s you doing it to yourself unknowingly and in a bigger spiritual aspect. I would say it’s happening for you. It’s happening so you can wake up to a better, healthier, happier version of yourself. And it takes a major level of awareness to to come to that which requires, in my experience, meditation or spiritual practice, because without meditation or spiritual, you never have the wherewithal and the ability to actually identify what’s going on within yourself.

01:04:12:22 – 01:04:25:21
Nathan Crane
And you just go through the motions, right? Experiencing this continuous pain and suffering, blaming everybody else for your problems, but realizing that you actually have control of how you feel and how you respond.

01:04:25:21 – 01:04:52:19
Pamela Chambers
So well said. I always say guilt. Replace guilt with the wisdom. It’s bringing things to consciousness and the only way we do that is through stillness typically, right? It’s allowing our thoughts and to bubble up when we’re quiet. You know, if you’re sitting, if you throw a rock in a still lake. Right. It has a ripple effect. Well, that’s what meditation is.

01:04:52:19 – 01:05:11:13
Pamela Chambers
You ripple the energy out there. You’re able to listen. If you throw that rock in a stormy sea, you won’t even see where the rock landed. But it’s the stillness that allows consciousness to come up and we change our guilt into wisdom. You know, we can look back and say, Oh, I feel guilty about that. Well, you weren’t conscious then of what you were doing.

01:05:12:03 – 01:05:36:23
Pamela Chambers
So you know, now that you’re more conscientious of what you did, that you didn’t lie, well, then that’s wisdom. So replace the guilt with wisdom. And I neurons are listening to our brain. Like you said, when you forgive, your neurons listen. And they’re thinking, Oh, phew, you, you know, it’s like if you had ever told a lie, we’d come out with it.

01:05:36:24 – 01:06:00:08
Pamela Chambers
It’s a huge sigh of relief. Same with the neurons, you know, when you said you forgive your neurons are listening in, your body is calm, and then that’s when it can repair and that’s when it can heal. During calmness is when we heal the person. Pathetic is the nerve in the nervous system that calms rejuvenates revitalizes you?

01:06:02:03 – 01:06:26:05
Nathan Crane
Absolutely. I often share the story of Kisha. You told me in a conversation we had in an interview I had with her a few years back that she found out later when her son was grown up, that she had hired a babysitter that had been molesting him and she didn’t know it was a child. He he told her once he was an adult.

01:06:27:10 – 01:06:37:13
Nathan Crane
And can you imagine the shock and the trauma she must have felt, the anger, the pain, the sadness, the self.

01:06:39:00 – 01:06:39:15
Pamela Chambers
Loathing.

01:06:39:15 – 01:06:54:02
Nathan Crane
Self anger, self-loathing towards herself for not knowing, for hiring this babysitter and towards the babysitter for molesting her child immediately. Within months, she grew a breast tumor.

01:06:55:19 – 01:06:56:11
Pamela Chambers
Sort of thing.

01:06:56:19 – 01:07:30:24
Nathan Crane
And she is a psychotherapist. I believe she’s a holistic practitioner. She’s an incredible human being. And so she had the wherewithal to, one, already recognize where this breast tumor come from. It came from my own anger, my own self judgment, my own, you know, feelings and emotions. And so she went into her own forgiveness practice, forgiveness towards the babysitter, forgiveness towards herself, took her some time.

01:07:31:17 – 01:07:57:24
Nathan Crane
But she told me that she was able to fully, fully forgive him and fully forgive herself. And within three months, the tumor was gone. Our it’s so the mind is so powerful. Our emotions are so powerful. You know, that’s one anecdote. But there are literally thousands of anecdotes like that all around the world that have been documented. Kelly Turner.

01:07:57:24 – 01:08:29:19
Nathan Crane
Dr. Kelly Turner, documented in radical remission, you know, 1500 cases where they put themselves into remission. These are cancer cases that our medical society, our medical conventional world calls remission. I just have a spontaneous it was luck, it was chance, whatever. And it’s like, no, it was intentional remission when. You add in, you know, cruciferous vegetables and whole foods and more healing natural plant foods in your diet.

01:08:29:19 – 01:08:49:00
Nathan Crane
And you exercise and you meditate and you do forgiveness and spiritual practices. You get more sunshine and vitamin D and you spend more time outside and you forgive the people that hurt you. And you do all these things that they had in common all around the world. Many of them had these same things in common, and then they’re cancers of all different types go away.

01:08:49:11 – 01:09:13:15
Nathan Crane
That’s not spontaneous. People Come on, that’s intentional. That’s intentional remission. And that’s what our modern conventional system needs to study and understand. They won’t because, as you and I know, it’s all primarily funded and ran by Big Pharma. They don’t you know, that’s not profitable, right? It’s not profitable to eat some plants and meditate, you know, not profitable for any big company.

01:09:13:23 – 01:09:19:23
Nathan Crane
But it works. People hear all the time. And that’s that’s what people need to know.

01:09:20:17 – 01:09:31:07
Pamela Chambers
Well well, it’s the placebo effect. The placebo. It’s one of the most powerful thing that. But we don’t study it. How come it works, right? Yeah. The placebo can.

01:09:31:07 – 01:09:32:01
Nathan Crane
Absolutely.

01:09:32:20 – 01:10:03:00
Pamela Chambers
I didn’t even know I during my naturopathy got one of my training sessions. I didn’t realize that allergies are related to our emotions. So when I found that out, I’m like, You mean it’s not the outside stuff that’s creating these allergies? I’m like, Oh, geez, that’s trying to do things, you know, all together. So when I realized that I started doing some herbal teas and paying more attention and boom, no more allergy medicine.

01:10:03:00 – 01:10:32:21
Pamela Chambers
Do what I need. I’m just sometimes realizing that it is internal. My allergies, like they say sometimes let’s say that you’re studying for a test and it’s during the spring, okay? And you do poorly on that test and then all of a sudden you have allergies that every time spring goes around. I mean, this is a really simplified version, but what it’s saying is, is that are psychosomatic issues can create allergies, which I had no idea.

01:10:33:02 – 01:10:37:14
Pamela Chambers
But anyway, now I don’t take my allergy medicine every day, so that’s amazing.

01:10:37:14 – 01:11:01:06
Nathan Crane
Yeah. Yeah. Oh Pamela, it’s been awesome talking with you. I mean, you’re a true inspiration for people. You’re, you know, as we’re recording this 44 years cancer free, you know, I survived a plane crash has changed your life in so many positive ways and you help other people do the same. You know, it’s really an honor to talk to you and get to hear more about your story.

01:11:01:06 – 01:11:10:17
Nathan Crane
Thank you so much for sharing it. And for people who want to get in touch with you as well. I know you do retreats and you have consulting and things like that. Where’s the best place for them to get in touch with you.

01:11:11:12 – 01:11:13:09
Pamela Chambers
At Pamela Chambers dot com.

01:11:13:23 – 01:11:20:00
Nathan Crane
Nice. Beautiful. Yeah well thanks again. It was great great having you here. It’s great talking with you.

01:11:20:19 – 01:11:25:12
Pamela Chambers
On her honor to speak with you, Nathan. Thanks for all that you do and not mistake.

01:11:25:20 – 01:11:28:14
Nathan Crane
All right. Now, I must say. Take care, everybody.