Head over to https://nathancrane.com/podcast/ to explore more on this thought-provoking journey.
In today’s conversation, we dive into a fundamental question: Are we truly born in the image of God, filled with divine love and the potential to become like Jesus? Or are we born sinners, bound by our flaws, with salvation as our only hope?
Join us as we explore these powerful and contrasting beliefs, and discover how this impacts our understanding of faith and life.
Don’t miss this deep dive into spiritual wisdom.
Your host, Nathan Crane, is a Certified Holistic Cancer Coach, Best-Selling Author, Inspirational Speaker, Cancer-Health Researcher and Educator, and 20X Award Winning Documentary Filmmaker with Over 15 Years in the Health Field.
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Audio Transcript
(This transcript was auto-generated so there may be some errors)
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:28:03
Nathan Crane
Welcome back to this series of Bible conversations with Jonathan Auto. Super excited to dove into topic number two today. Johnno, thanks for coming on man. The first conversation was really deep and very philosophical and enlightening conversation. We’ve gotten people emailing in about it that they absolutely loved it and so I’m excited to dove into this next topic with you, which will cover what it is.
00:00:28:03 – 00:00:35:10
Nathan Crane
We’ll recap. First of all, a little bit, but just wanted to I know you’re traveling a bit, so thanks for making the time to do this, brother. Super happy to have you back on.
00:00:36:02 – 00:00:59:01
Jonathan Otto
Oh, welcome. And thank you. It’s it’s really great. And I’m glad you prioritize it. It’s the reason why for me, even if I’m super busy or something, crazy’s going on in my life or whatever. This is the thing to prioritize because, you know, what are we without our connection to ourselves? Without our connection to God? Certainly it’s. It’s worth making time for, man.
00:00:59:01 – 00:01:26:22
Jonathan Otto
So I, you know, I think my my your commitment to this my commitment to this is a really good kind of case in point for people listening of the importance of this kind of conversation right now, how important it is that you take in what we’re talking about and consider it and make it your own, because that’s where you can find a piece and you can find meaning and purpose and overcome perhaps any different challenge that you’re facing today.
00:01:26:22 – 00:01:31:08
Jonathan Otto
And so this is like certainly a huge key to all of it. So I’m looking forward to sharing.
00:01:31:20 – 00:01:57:01
Nathan Crane
Yeah, absolutely. So just a little context for people. You are coming from a background of most of your life, right? Really deeply studying the Bible, very intimately as a Christian, as a Seventh Day Adventist Christian and really coming to some very interesting conclusions along the way that are very revelatory and have been changing people’s lives as you share them with people.
00:01:57:01 – 00:02:00:19
Nathan Crane
Is that would that be accurate way to. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, that’s.
00:02:01:14 – 00:02:27:21
Jonathan Otto
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, definitely. Definitely this is a lot to what you’re saying. There is is correct. There’s like, for example, I did grow up in a in a Christian context. I grew up in a family that practice within a seven day business, which is which is actually like a mainstream Christian denomination. So it’s it’s not it’s it’s not a fringe one.
00:02:27:21 – 00:02:54:17
Jonathan Otto
It’s part of the mainstream which which has an interesting that may be a good thing to some people maybe a downside to some people because a lot of people, you know, in these contexts have lost a lot of connection to what they those original purposes behind those denominations were really about. They they did amalgamate with either some government agendas and various different things like that.
00:02:54:17 – 00:03:18:09
Jonathan Otto
And I would say that that sadly is the case for the church that I grew up in, which is why in one sense I would identify in many things in, in, in, in comparison, similarity to Seventh Day Adventist and other setting. I would completely identify as being of no denomination and in that sense, non-denominational also just to kind of make that clear a bit.
00:03:18:13 – 00:03:38:02
Jonathan Otto
But in terms of the core thing and of what you’re talking about, absolutely did grow up around the Bible, around discussions around that, around questions around that. But certainly it wasn’t until I was around 19 years of age that I started to go really deep and start to study these things for myself and gain deeper understandings for what I actually thought about.
00:03:38:02 – 00:04:02:13
Jonathan Otto
And up until that point, I was largely skeptical of of all of it. And but I still I did pray as a child independently, and I did have like a conversation and dialog with God as best as I could. And it was still filled with a lot of confusion and kind of question marks and then which then eventuated to a lot of skepticism in my early teen years.
00:04:02:20 – 00:04:26:03
Jonathan Otto
And then but then still a massive gaping hole, like a longing, a yearning for something more than what I had, and feeling like, if this is it, then I don’t feel like life is really it has meaning. And I think that there has to be something more. There has to be something more that what happens after you die and and especially just the just the current longing that I had this something more that I long for.
00:04:26:03 – 00:04:47:03
Jonathan Otto
And it was like what C.S. Lewis talked about, where he said that if a baby cries for milk, it’s there’s such a thing as milk. And people have sexual desire or there’s such a thing as sex. And if I have a craving, a longing for something that that that nothing in this world can satisfy the only probable explanation is that I was made for another world.
00:04:47:15 – 00:04:52:14
Jonathan Otto
And so that’s I would definitely agree with him in that sentiment. So yeah.
00:04:53:08 – 00:05:19:20
Nathan Crane
Yeah, it’s a beautiful way to open up. And actually I just I learn more even from you just sharing that and even our other conversations, just about more of kind of where your perspective is. So thank you. That’s super helpful. And my and the short version of mind is I kind of come at this from a very eclectic background of studying directly with various religious and spiritual traditions.
00:05:20:13 – 00:05:49:14
Nathan Crane
I spent many, many hours with Native Americans in all kinds of ceremonies. I spent many hours with Buddhists meditating and learning Buddhist traditions, with Zen masters, with the chanting, with Hari Krishna’s with with yogis, and more recently, really diving deeply into the yogic sciences and the Vedas. And all of the wisdom out of the East have studied with Christians, with Mormons.
00:05:49:18 – 00:06:14:23
Nathan Crane
I was actually went to a very large popular Christian church last Thursday and had an incredible I’ll share a little bit about that incredible experience with Jesus. And so and then more recently as well, really diving deeply into the Bible, reading it daily, taking notes on it, meditating on it. And I’ve I’ve spent quite a bit of time over the years, you know, going through the Bible and understanding, trying to understand different aspects about it.
00:06:14:23 – 00:06:51:03
Nathan Crane
But like you, I’m I would not claim my part of any single religion, but really a child of God and a secret God and someone who desires deeply to deeply, truly know God and know the truth of our existence. And so I have glimpses of it. I have been pointed towards it. I have had incredible life changing experiences that only God can explain that only saying that was God, you know, would explain the reason for those things.
00:06:51:03 – 00:07:21:15
Nathan Crane
So I have no doubt there is a God, a unified source and all creative, you know, pure lifeforce energy that emanates all of us. And that our highest purpose really is to know God, to be one with God, to have that deep experience of God and with God. And so I see the Bible actually as an incredible ancient text that points us how to know God for ourselves, where Jesus is teaching us how to know God, where is God?
00:07:21:15 – 00:07:52:08
Nathan Crane
Where is the Kingdom of God? How do we find the Kingdom of God? And it’s all in there. It’s all there. But before we go too deep into that, I want to briefly recap our first conversation. So for those who didn’t watch it, please go watch it. It’s really wonderful. We’d love to hear feedback on it was really about, you know, the contradiction between this vengeful God, this angry God, this jealous God in the Bible versus this loving God, this all compassionate, this all wise, caring God in the Bible.
00:07:52:20 – 00:08:12:20
Nathan Crane
And so, you know, without going into too much into that, I don’t even really want to talk about it because then we’ll probably talk about that for the entire hour. Just have people go watch that, please. And so we’ll move on from that. That was the conversation, number one. Topic number two is this question I want to ask you.
00:08:12:20 – 00:08:44:03
Nathan Crane
And then we can we can kind of discuss this is are we made in the image of God filled with the divine love of the spirit, with the ability to become like Jesus? Or are we born sinners with no hope of ever overcoming sin? And no matter how hard we try, we will always be sinners. And the only way to get into heaven is to claim Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and hope that that gets us into the pearly gates of heaven, because those two concepts are opposite of each other.
00:08:44:03 – 00:09:06:14
Nathan Crane
And there is both of those beliefs exist very predominantly today. That one on one hand, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Many people take that. As you know, God is incarnated as himself. Some people take it as, you know, Jesus is the Son of God. Some would take it. Take it as Jesus is the direct incarnate of God.
00:09:07:23 – 00:09:34:04
Nathan Crane
And yet others believe that Jesus was trained in the higher wisdom teachings of enlightenment from the East. And there’s a lot of evidence that supports that as well, and learned how to embody his God given potential. Just as all humans have that same potential. And His purpose on earth was to show people how to be one with God and live their highest potential, not as a natural born sinner, but as a child of God who can overcome sin through wisdom and love.
00:09:34:16 – 00:09:41:02
Nathan Crane
And so I’ll just open up to you. Where where do you stand on that? Yeah, well.
00:09:41:22 – 00:10:11:06
Jonathan Otto
And that’s super interesting. And it’s interesting that something that was like a discussion and debate and and in charge for me maybe 20 years ago then is now entering a domain like where you’re bringing it up with me. I’m like, what? How is this conversation happening in this context? Why why is this, you know, an important point and I think it’s you know, when you think about someone like yourself, you know, what do you do, Nathan?
00:10:11:06 – 00:10:37:19
Jonathan Otto
You create change in the world. You believe that people can be chronic disease. You believe people can break through addiction. And so this sentiment or the belief that people kind of they don’t actually change, they just receive God and that that grace and they are accepted. And and that is kind of the end of the road. And they just accept and welcome that acceptance they have of God as they are.
00:10:37:19 – 00:11:03:07
Jonathan Otto
But then there is no either need to change or ability to change because because the condition of the human is, is defective inherently. And so how can, how can one get further than what they actually are? You know, they don’t have that propensity that have the ability to do it. And, you know, so it’s it’s interesting. And then you say, well, then why would this be emphasized?
00:11:03:17 – 00:11:30:01
Jonathan Otto
And so why do a lot of Christians seem to gain a lot of hope from this? And so there’s something that they’re gaining from it. What is it that they’re gaining? And I would say, well, it’s pretty clear that they’re gaining that unconditional love and acceptance that they’re really hoping for, and it gives them assurance. And so now, if they base their eternal life based on now their actions, and now you have to earn your way to a God and to be loved by God.
00:11:30:01 – 00:11:57:02
Jonathan Otto
And that there’s something about that that feels off as well. You see, see this interesting thing? It’s it’s you would think that the answer was no, you just saved by grace and you don’t have to change that answer. Or the other answer is, look, you do have to change. And and if you don’t, then it’s unacceptable. And and then and therefore, you can’t be received by God.
00:11:57:05 – 00:12:21:21
Jonathan Otto
And now that there is a part of that that feels something about that feels wrong. And so let’s say, for example, for me, whether something feels right or wrong, I don’t really take that as then. That’s what it is. If it feels wrong, then I’ll say, okay, I’ve got an inkling here. I’ve got like maybe a like a knock, knock, knock on the door, but it doesn’t mean that I now lock in whatever I feel.
00:12:21:21 – 00:12:42:06
Jonathan Otto
I actually go then to try to explore this in the Bible, to understand what does the Bible say? And whatever it says is what I what I believe, even though someone say that’s pretty mindless. Why do you believe whatever the Bible believes our teachers and it’s it’s just because I’ve gone through other groundwork that has given me so much trust in God and communicating through that.
00:12:42:06 – 00:13:07:05
Jonathan Otto
And and I and I do think it is perfect in that sense, even though it came through God inspiring people. And so it is written it there is human elements in combined, but it is still the voice of God to myself. And so yeah, there’s, there’s a lot there, but I would say that humans, we do have the spirit of God and it’s just like you’re saying and that we were made in the image of God.
00:13:07:05 – 00:13:44:12
Jonathan Otto
And, and so someone say, well, yeah, you were right, but what about now? But there is so much in the Bible that talks about the present experience of, of being transformed. And, and you quoted in last time, we can bring up some of the quotes that is many quotes in the Bible, in the Old and New Testament, and especially the words of Jesus talking about people being like basically a rising into the perfection of of of what they were made to be, of there being a complete transformation like the, you know, chapters like Romans 12, I believe, which says, you know, be not conform to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your
00:13:44:12 – 00:14:13:05
Jonathan Otto
mind. And it talks about putting off the flesh and then putting on the new man, which is in Christ Jesus. And, and, and that if at first John talks all about if you and if you’re not walking in the spirit and you’re not doing the works of God and love and kindness towards your fellow brethren, then how can you say that you are of Christ and that you you espouse His name when your actions show otherwise?
00:14:13:15 – 00:14:48:06
Jonathan Otto
And so there are very clear things like that, but people get confused because it’s like it doesn’t. There is a lot a lot of us all want to feel like we’re just going to be loved no matter what. And and I actually do believe that that’s true, that God does love us no matter what. And I really do think the biggest confusion point in this whole thing is the belief that God is the one that does the judging, because now it becomes an issue, because if God now judges you for your actions, then it’s a what what chance do any of us have for status?
00:14:48:21 – 00:15:10:13
Jonathan Otto
Because it’s got to that and now be a perfect standard. You can’t just kind of turn a blind eye to, you know, a some dishonesty that maybe you felt like was necessary for you to get ahead in life. That wasn’t blatant stealing, but it was along the lines of whatever. I’m being a little vague, but let’s just say it’s pretty gray or a white lie.
00:15:10:13 – 00:15:35:15
Jonathan Otto
This is just a blatant lie, but now it’s still a lie or okay, so let’s say you didn’t commit adultery. Didn’t you sleep with somebody else and you stay committed to your wife, but you thought about it or you watched some things or you you let your eyes linger. You kind of had these thoughts cultivating. Now, does that person deserve that same punishment of being separated from God in everlasting life?
00:15:35:15 – 00:15:54:02
Jonathan Otto
These things then become really full on and you just have to start thinking, Wow, what are my chances of being saved that pretty low? Because even though I don’t do all these bad things, quote unquote, I just I know that there’s a lot of like, wrong thoughts and feelings inside of me. And so naturally people are going to just swing the other way.
00:15:54:02 – 00:16:12:22
Jonathan Otto
And it doesn’t matter what you do. But I’m saying that it’s it’s not God that judges you. And so it’s you that’s judging you. And so if you understand that God doesn’t judge you, then it means that there is a perfect standard that he’s calling you too, but he’s not the one that’s going to hold that against you, but you may hold that against yourself.
00:16:12:22 – 00:16:30:14
Jonathan Otto
So there is reason to flee from sin because those are the things that you’re stacked against yourself when you stand before God and he says, Come and let’s just imagine that image and forever your single soul. As bad as you think that person is, God just has his arms open wide and just says, Come, I’ve got you, I love you.
00:16:30:15 – 00:16:47:10
Jonathan Otto
My love will solve this problem of whatever is going on in your life with the sins that you’re you’re carrying. I can I can just heal this with my love. And you see, that happened with the thief on the cross that I mean, this guy has no nothing to show. He’s not done a single good deed. As far as we know, all he’s done is bad deeds.
00:16:47:19 – 00:17:11:20
Jonathan Otto
And somehow the law of God just heals his heart. And we could imagine that if you got down from the cross, he would exhibit some changes of of a quality that would change life. But but maybe not intersection, right? Maybe it would be very imperfect still. Maybe it would be completely perfect. We don’t really know. But if you look at everyone else that’s gone through that journey, it’s an imperfect journey, but it’s that you’re listening to the voice of God.
00:17:11:20 – 00:17:25:04
Jonathan Otto
And that’s the key part there. But if you’re holding things against yourself, then look, that’s a big problem because that’s where sin can really bring about self-destruct. And that’s the thing that I’m really concerned about with people.
00:17:26:00 – 00:17:56:19
Nathan Crane
Yeah. So I look to the Sermon on the Mount as what is Jesus directly telling us what to do right? I mean is very clear where he’s saying how to live our lives, how to lead our lives, how to think, how to behave. You know, when someone, you know, hits you, turn the other cheek, someone sues, you give them.
00:17:56:19 – 00:18:29:00
Nathan Crane
Also the rest of everything you have. Right, like I’m paraphrasing clearly. But there’s so much in that sermon that is telling us exactly how to live in accordance with God’s law. And so, you know, even then we look at what first, John 415 says, whoever shall confess that Jesus is the son of God, God dwells in him and he in God.
00:18:29:16 – 00:18:51:23
Nathan Crane
And I think what can happen is maybe we can take that to the extreme and we take it, as I have to confess, Jesus is the Son of God. And and that is, you know, the first step in getting me into heaven. But just look, we don’t even have to we don’t have to try and interpret that. Just take it as it is.
00:18:52:15 – 00:19:24:12
Nathan Crane
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God wealth in Him and he in God. Right? Then one John 416 goes on and we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love. And He that dwells in love, dwells in God and God in him. So it’s saying, number one, we see that Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus and then is saying, we dwell in love and we dwell in Jesus.
00:19:24:12 – 00:19:49:09
Nathan Crane
And we also then dwell in God. Well, how do we dwell in love? That’s really what it’s telling us. And I think the question that I’ve had is, okay, that’s not just some parable or something that we should skip over quickly and go, Yeah, that’s a nice sentence. You know, that’s a nice passage, that’s a beautiful verse. It’s literally saying that he that dwell with in love, dwell in God and God in him.
00:19:49:24 – 00:20:37:11
Nathan Crane
So dwell is right, really going into into the love, knowing the love, becoming the love of living in love. And that’s not an easy thing to do, but it’s telling us that we we should do it. We have that capacity. We have that capacity to know God, to know Jesus, to know love by dwelling in it. Right. And I’m actually very curious in the I’ll look it up on the Strong’s app on the deeper meanings of Dwell because I haven’t looked at up specifically of the original definition of dwellings, but you know how we would take that.
00:20:37:11 – 00:21:07:06
Nathan Crane
And it’s that’s why I always look up these words because it’s like, yeah, I can think of what that means to me today. But in the original language that it was in what was the meaning were primitive root. Primitive root was properly to turn aside from the road for a lodging or any other purpose that’s to so drawn, also to shrink, also to gather, to abide, to assemble, to dwell, to inhabitant, to remain, to stand in are right.
00:21:07:15 – 00:21:29:22
Nathan Crane
So if we think of those original meanings of that word, to stand in awe of love, of God to inhabit, love, to inhabit God, to dwell in God, to assemble in God, to assemble in love. Right? This is this verse is so powerful by itself. I mean, we can meditate and pray on this one verse for days, weeks, months and years.
00:21:30:11 – 00:21:50:07
Nathan Crane
And and it will guide us to, I think, such a profound understanding. Right. That and there are many, many more to write. I mean, John, 14, 12, barely, barely saying to you, he didn’t believe it’s on me. The works that I do, shall he do also and greater works than these shall he do. Because I go on to my father.
00:21:50:24 – 00:22:08:08
Nathan Crane
Right. And whatsoever you shall ask in my name that will I do that? The father may be glorified in the son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. If you love me, keep my commandments right and I will pray that the father sends a comforter. Comforter to you. That’s the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost will be with you.
00:22:08:16 – 00:22:30:02
Nathan Crane
Right? And you will so. And you know him, for he dwells with you and shall be in you. So he’s talking about that even Jesus is gone. The Holy Ghost is with us. The Spirit of God is with us. And that when we dwell in that love, we dwell in that Spirit of God. We inhabit it. We, we, we abide in it, right?
00:22:30:02 – 00:22:52:02
Nathan Crane
We really focus on it. Then we too shall do these things that Jesus has done and even greater works than these even greater works than these. What does that mean? A lot of people just skip over that. It’s like, Oh yeah, that sounds great. But I don’t really, you know, because I’m a sinner, I will never be like Jesus.
00:22:52:02 – 00:23:15:00
Nathan Crane
I can never be free from sin. The verse in the Bible just I just kind of skip over. It doesn’t make sense to me, but it’s very clear what he’s telling us here. Like when we dove deeper into the Bible, if we believe that the Bible is the Word of God inspired, as you said, inspired by God through the people who wrote it.
00:23:15:17 – 00:23:38:14
Nathan Crane
Right? Yeah. Psalms 86, I have said Ye are gods and all of you are children of the most high. We are children of God. We are sons of God. That’s in John, right? We are. It’s just it’s repeated again and again and again and again. I and my father are one, right. And I’m not going to read that whole one.
00:23:38:14 – 00:24:10:03
Nathan Crane
But John. 1038 But if I do that, will you believe not many believe the works that you may know and believe that the father is in me and I in him. And then two Corinthians 318 but we all with open face beholding as in the glass, the glory of the Lord are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord again, something you can meditate on for days and weeks and months and and get the essence of that of that message right.
00:24:10:14 – 00:24:34:19
Nathan Crane
Beholding is in the glass of the glory of the Lord. We are changed into the same image from the glory. So it’s telling us literally to look into the image of God, to look into the glory of God, to meditate on that, to reflect on that. And right here by the Spirit of the Lord, we are changed into the same image from glory.
00:24:36:09 – 00:24:54:12
Nathan Crane
I mean, I could go on, I mean, dozens and dozens of these I found over the you know, because it’s like I want to know the deeper essence of the teachings of Jesus was really telling us not what I’m told in church, not what some, you know, not what a pastor or preacher has interpreted for themselves. It’s like, I want to know the deeper essence.
00:24:54:12 – 00:25:11:22
Nathan Crane
So I will read these and then I’ll meditate on it and then you know, and then guidance will come and then I’ll find more. That’s that show up and show up and show up and show up and show up. And I think that’s what everybody can do should do has the power to do right with this moment we sit just like, you know, working.
00:25:11:22 – 00:25:32:09
Nathan Crane
We know you and I working in the health space for so long. Patients who are sick that give all their power over to a doctor in a white lab coat, very often regret it later on because they found out, hey, there were other alternative options I could have followed that would have been less damaging to my health and I would have been more empowered and healthy had I done these things.
00:25:32:09 – 00:25:56:23
Nathan Crane
And they often regret handing all their power over without looking deeper for themselves into the truth, into the solutions for them. And that’s what I do, is I it’s like I want to know at the deepest level what is the deepest truth. And I think the only way we can do that for ourselves is to read and then to meditate and to pray and to really ask for that divine guidance.
00:25:56:23 – 00:26:06:15
Nathan Crane
And for me, the guidance comes it really does. I think it comes for everybody when we when we can quiet ourselves and open ourselves to listen. Yeah.
00:26:07:04 – 00:26:29:21
Jonathan Otto
Yeah, absolutely. As powerful. And something you said about you being changed into the image of God I’d be holding as in a glass, and that word is really mirror because that’s that’s how glass was referred to as I was. It is actually like in, in our English language would use the word near us to be holding us in the mirror, the glory of the Lord, which actually glory denotes character.
00:26:30:02 – 00:26:53:22
Jonathan Otto
So every time when you see this, when Moses asked God, show me your glory, and then the Lord pass before Him. And then it says, and then these words we declared the Lord full of grace and full of goodness and abundant and goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands and giving iniquity and sin so all these, when he asked to his glory, he doesn’t seem like just beaming light or that actually does show up.
00:26:54:04 – 00:27:15:04
Jonathan Otto
But it wasn’t. That really doesn’t say much other than wow, this kind of looks amazing. But it was more about the attributes. Glory was all about that. So beholding in a mirror, the glory of the Lord, the character of the Lord, which hands into the same image. And just think about how that goes the opposite way when you believe the wrong thing about God and how and how sad that is.
00:27:15:04 – 00:27:36:12
Jonathan Otto
So you behold the wrong thing and God then it justifies as all the things that you do that are wrong of ways that you may be hurting people, your harshness and they create these issues. Hence why, like our last discussion, we’re going into detail about how we naturally believe wrong things about God by virtue of the fact we pick them up from by the people.
00:27:37:00 – 00:27:58:14
Jonathan Otto
It’s easy to to just pick up these issues because we we have our own flows of character. We’ve learned certain habits from our parents and, you know, the judicial punishment based system is like a very natural system for humans. It’s just it’s a ethos that is about how we right wrongs through sacrificial offerings and all these types of things.
00:27:58:14 – 00:28:32:09
Jonathan Otto
And people don’t think it exists. But then just look at all the movies that are filling people’s minds. It’s all sacrificial, in essence. It’s all about like, wrong being right. It’s through death and death being the the like the absolute worship of, of media. And you really can’t escape that. You know, she tried to watch a movie at the cinema is that is kind of like maybe pretty okay and then you realize that it’s it’s old this dark theme still that is all through the trailer is that you’re getting hit with and you’re getting hit with all these horror films.
00:28:32:09 – 00:28:51:15
Jonathan Otto
And then and then even the ones that are just like kind of hero. Good guy, bad guy, it’s still all based on the sacrificial system. There’s no redemption of the bad guys won one dimensional bad characters that have need you don’t really care about them. And so you’re okay to just see them, like get a bullet in their head and it’s just super dark.
00:28:51:15 – 00:29:07:13
Jonathan Otto
And that’s the image of God that a lot of people are seeing without realizing, because it’s it’s your subconscious program. And so then that’s what you see in the mirror. It comes back to you and you just keep getting change more into that same thing. And people are stuck in these feedback loops. We can’t change because we’re seeing the wrong image.
00:29:07:13 – 00:29:37:02
Jonathan Otto
And why do you think when you look at all the darkness of how your religion gets pinned as being responsible for a lot of the darkness and evil and and violence that has happened to people in the world. And it is and it’s true and false at the same time, because it was if you look at the settings we talked about this, where it was people that harnessed this for their own innate power, they these were not, you know, to there were cases.
00:29:37:02 – 00:30:04:07
Jonathan Otto
And if you look at satellite, you look at the militia of Islam, you see that they do have a very religious way that they’re saying these things when they and activating like honor killings or things like this. And so there are cases where people are very devout. And and that’s part of the issue where you program people with dark beliefs and they become very fervent to these these beliefs and then they become basically slaves of these false beliefs.
00:30:04:15 – 00:30:27:18
Jonathan Otto
And they they can and, you know, Christianity, all the different kind of world religions. When you see people like give in to these darker attributes once they cherish these attributes and put them up as being like the ideal, it downgrades everyone. It just makes everyone super dark. And then it’s sad because you look at why would Christianity be responsible for any of those things.
00:30:27:18 – 00:30:48:12
Jonathan Otto
When you look at the life of Christ and you see that there’s just nothing to show there for for that death and violence that that became then so commonly known to the Dark Ages about it. But it was really a departure from that system and of of good but yeah, I’d like to throw it back to you and see where you want to go with this.
00:30:49:02 – 00:31:14:04
Nathan Crane
Yeah. Actually since you brought that up like I see that. I mean you’ve brought that up to me, you know, months ago and it’s like I see that more and more now than ever over the years. I’ve just naturally, you know, reduced watching, you know, films that are, you know, gory and and, you know, killing and all of that.
00:31:14:04 – 00:31:33:13
Nathan Crane
Like, it just I think the deeper we dove into any kind of spiritual path, those things become less and less appealing. Our soul, our mind, our brain is like turned off to that, you know, it’s like I watch less and less and less. And now like I’ve been watching the The Chosen lately. Have you seen The Chosen?
00:31:33:13 – 00:31:34:07
Jonathan Otto
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:34:15 – 00:31:56:03
Nathan Crane
Yeah. And so like, I’ll, I’ll pop on. I think it’s on prime. I’ll pop on prime and like I just notice every single film that it’s showing me and I don’t even watch these films. Like I mostly watch, you know, biographies, you know, triumphant stories like athletic stories, people overcoming challenges, right? Like true stories. That’s like mostly what I watch.
00:31:56:03 – 00:32:16:08
Nathan Crane
But yet on my home screen, what it mostly shows me is all these, you know, action films and gory films and all these films that are about killing and and all of this stuff. And I’m like, this is what majority of people are conditioned to every single day. Right? Exactly what you’re talking about, that there’s this sacrificial aspect.
00:32:16:08 – 00:32:20:04
Jonathan Otto
But I it’s relieving for people. That’s the that’s the scary part.
00:32:20:22 – 00:32:37:00
Nathan Crane
It was. Yeah. I mean I watched that my whole life growing up and even horror films I watched when I was really young. But then like I think even in my early twenties, like I just couldn’t watch horror films anymore. I didn’t get anything out of them. And my guess is horror is horror films are horrible. I just don’t get anything out of it.
00:32:37:07 – 00:33:03:06
Nathan Crane
But there are people who thrive on that, right? It’s like that fear and that being scared. And I mean, I think part of it is the the adrenaline that you get, you know, the sense of feeling alive and afraid. But the deeper we connect to God and the deeper we connect to our spiritual selves, like the the feeling we get from that is so much more fulfilling than any of these other, you know, dramatic kinds of experiences.
00:33:03:18 – 00:33:25:11
Jonathan Otto
True to. And even in a horror film. Think about this, Nathan. What what does somebody what reason is one of the characters offed in this horror film like what’s why then that there’s some reason why it was them at that point in time. What did they what did they do or not do? What did they do wrong? Have you noticed that it’s I don’t know.
00:33:25:11 – 00:33:30:02
Nathan Crane
I mean, I honestly haven’t seen a horror film for probably 20 something years, so I don’t even know like.
00:33:30:02 – 00:33:33:06
Jonathan Otto
Yeah. Whether it’s a horror film or whether it’s Jurassic Park.
00:33:33:12 – 00:33:42:24
Nathan Crane
Okay, so. So is that why somebody. Yeah. So why somebody, like, killed or whatever? Cause they did something bad? Because they did something that right there. That’s correct. Yeah.
00:33:43:04 – 00:34:20:00
Jonathan Otto
Yeah. And it could have been a minor thing or a major thing, typically somewhere in between or various. Right. But it could even be because they were too fearful. So they deserved it. It could be because they were carrying it. Too much weight. That’s a classic Jurassic Park theme where it’s, you know, why is it okay then why is it like there’s a sacrifice there, but the guy’s overweight and he’s a bit like annoying and so you just a bit lazy or and so that’s, that’s called psychological projection because that’s kind of all of us.
00:34:20:00 – 00:34:38:22
Jonathan Otto
And you’d say, Yeah, well, I’m like, I could actually put on a bit of weight. So I’m, I’m, I’m thin. So why, why am I saying that’s me projecting? Well that the weight that he’s carrying is a sign of like maybe the laziness that I feel within myself, that I know that I, I have not been diligent in certain things.
00:34:38:22 – 00:35:05:23
Jonathan Otto
Me seeing him get punished for his laziness and his thoughtfulness and his gluttony, which I wasn’t gluttonous with food, but I was gluttonous with something else. And so I’m punishing myself through punishing that person. And then I feel relief now because my problem got dealt with through the death of somebody else. And this is this is the atonement system that once you understand that, you realize that God, the only way God could save us was through it.
00:35:06:08 – 00:35:25:05
Jonathan Otto
And that’s why you the sacrificial system through the Bible. And you’d say, why would you do this? God, it doesn’t sound right. It doesn’t sound right of why an animal should die. And instead of a person. And then you realize that God never condoned the system. He only was speaking through the culture. And why don’t you start understanding this and you see all the verses?
00:35:25:05 – 00:35:42:15
Jonathan Otto
The verse is clearly talking about it. I not giving you these things. I you know, when I. Jeremiah 722 When I led your father’s out of land of Egypt, I spake not unto them, nor commanded them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. I could just give you one after the other. After the other that. Yeah, you know, why would you do this?
00:35:42:15 – 00:36:00:21
Jonathan Otto
God. And it’s like, well, this is in you, and you can’t escape. You don’t even realize it’s going on. People think they’re not religious at all. They think they’re atheists, and they’re watching things that are so deeply connected to a belief of a God that punishes. And they get relief when they see this, you know, come full circle.
00:36:00:21 – 00:36:19:22
Jonathan Otto
And so then it makes sense when you see Jesus on the cross, you realize it’s saving people from from themselves. And it’s it’s so you can see the whole thing come full circle and God is paying your debt. But it’s not. He didn’t make it up. It’s, it’s your it it was your, your issue, your system. You require the death.
00:36:19:22 – 00:36:41:13
Jonathan Otto
God meets you now through it, even though He didn’t require it, God didn’t require people to kill Jesus in order to forgive you. But you did. And it’s hard for some people to admit that, to acknowledge it. I certainly have, because I’ve weaned myself off all those dark types of things. But there are occasions where I’m like, I’ve felt disconnected from God.
00:36:41:13 – 00:37:08:22
Jonathan Otto
I haven’t been, you know, praying, connecting with God. And for sudden, suddenly it seems like super satisfying to me. I’m like, Yeah, that’s super interesting and fun and exciting. Seeing that happen to somebody for a second, I’m like, What is going on, man? I’m so disconnected right now. And then then I recalibrate. And I think coming back to your theme of what is the Bible say about the human experience, it does tell us that we do battle with the flesh through the life on Earth.
00:37:08:22 – 00:37:38:11
Jonathan Otto
We never actually graduate to switching at what would be considered sinful flesh. These are pretty kind of theological terms and you get switched that out for holy flesh and then you never have a single propensity to sin. So about Adam and Eve and the God they’d never seen before. And so when they got tempted with the fruit, it it wasn’t like when we get tempted because it was, it was a different of concept because they didn’t have anything to reference.
00:37:38:11 – 00:38:02:01
Jonathan Otto
They didn’t have like their fathers and their fathers and their parents and mothers. And having gone same pathway, developing these thick neurological pathways that you develop by thinking the same thing over and over, they didn’t have a propensity to this, whereas we do and we then can strengthen ourselves against it. But it’s for this reason you never put yourself in a bad situation.
00:38:02:01 – 00:38:24:10
Jonathan Otto
I never go and like go have a sleepover with a with other females and think that I’m going to be fine because I’m so strong, because I know that I have what’s referred to as sinful flesh. So I just don’t put myself in those situations. And so having this healthy understanding of the limitations is actually part of that experience as well.
00:38:24:12 – 00:38:39:10
Jonathan Otto
But in the Bible does talk about us finally trading that in for you for then, you know, no longer ever having any any thoughts or any desire for, for the things that are wrong and apart from God turning as a bit of a detour.
00:38:39:10 – 00:38:45:13
Nathan Crane
But no, that’s really fascinating actually. Do you know where it talks about that specifically? That’s I’d love to.
00:38:46:11 – 00:39:23:02
Jonathan Otto
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you have a look at this immortality. Will this mortality will put on immortality. This corruption will put on corruption. Immortality, immortality, corruption. I’ll get you to verse corruption. And this you could refer to as being simply, you know, just a physical body. It’s first Corinthians 1553 four. This corruptible must put on in corruption. This mortal must put on immortality.
00:39:23:02 – 00:39:57:21
Jonathan Otto
So when this corruptible shall have put on in corruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written? Death is death is sorry. Then shall it be brought to pass the saying that is written? Death is swallowed up in victory. Okay, so I will I will say as well, this could be referring to people simply like no longer having a decaying body, not necessarily a decaying mind or conscience or propensity to sin.
00:39:59:07 – 00:40:20:23
Jonathan Otto
And then but but you you keep stacking things here in the sense of looking to get more clarity. You look at other verses, for example, Romans eight three, the carnal mind is empty against God and cannot be subject to the law of God. Neither indeed can be. So that’s a that’s a great example. So it says the carnal mind.
00:40:20:23 – 00:40:39:22
Jonathan Otto
So then someone say, well, I don’t have a con a mind, I have, I have a holy mind. But there’s a real battle because you have to kind of go deep and admit, okay, why did it come as natural as breathing to think a thought of jealousy or a thought of, you know, violence to myself or somebody else?
00:40:39:22 – 00:40:43:07
Jonathan Otto
So y so you start realizing, hey, you go ahead.
00:40:43:20 – 00:41:07:01
Nathan Crane
I was just going to say, I was literally I was just being interviewed on another podcast and I was talking about this. I mean, look at a baby, right? What do we all love about babies? Every person, even, let’s say somebody who has evil thoughts. Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen the most, you know, gangster, evil kind of people turn into an angel when a baby gets put in their arms.
00:41:07:05 – 00:41:35:01
Nathan Crane
What is that? That’s the purity of God, right? That’s that. That baby does not have evil thoughts. That baby does not have jealousy and vengeance. And in fact, even with my own children and you could try and think of with yours, I think around the age when my kids even start to develop an ego, a sense of eye, a sense of identity is somewhere between the ages of three and maybe where it’s like, that’s mine, right?
00:41:35:15 – 00:42:02:08
Nathan Crane
Mine, maybe 2 to 3 or four years old. Somewhere in there, my toy, my thing, you know, before then you take something away from them, you know, you give them things. There’s no attachment, there’s no identity, there’s no ego that’s learned. Yeah, it’s learned that’s learned behavior It’s learned identity It’s learned attachment. Because otherwise a baby is just pure like we all.
00:42:02:19 – 00:42:26:04
Nathan Crane
You see a baby and you turn your mouth into love. Every person does, right? I mean, because that is the purest of pure of of God in your arms. It’s not until that baby is conditioned by its surroundings, environment, parents, siblings, churches, schools, everything else that develops this sense of I, this ego, this attachment to self, and then the separation from God.
00:42:26:09 – 00:43:07:10
Nathan Crane
And then, you know, these thoughts of jealousy and fear and anger and all these things. I’m not saying any of those are bad or wrong. In fact, those are part of our human experience to recognize what’s happening within us, identify the smaller self ego with the larger self as the, as, as the signs of the Vedas describe the lower self is the ego, the mind, the I, the separation from God, the higher self is the soul, is the oneness with God is the connection to God is that that’s that letting go of the attachment to the identity of that letting go of the ego, that letting go of the attachment to this physical world and
00:43:07:10 – 00:43:33:01
Nathan Crane
realizing that our soul is infinite. And in fact, our highest purpose is to be one with God. And so this is ancient Vedic teachings that go back thousands of years, and yet you can find these same teachings in the Bible. This what Jesus was also telling us, right? So Matthew, five eight. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God, pure and heart.
00:43:33:06 – 00:43:52:02
Nathan Crane
And then we see God, right? We have to purify our hearts. Five, nine. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God, for making peace in our family, in the world, in our communities, not fighting, not arguing, not bickering, not being jealous, not being angry, but making peace. Then they shall be called the children of God.
00:43:52:23 – 00:44:19:07
Nathan Crane
Matthew 516 Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father, which is in heaven. So we open, we shine our light so bright in the work that we do in the world, that then we glorify God through our work, through that bright shining this right. Matthew 538 You’ve heard that it has been said an eye for, an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
00:44:19:07 – 00:44:47:09
Nathan Crane
Right. But obviously saying resist not evil, but whosoever shall smite be on the right cheek turned him the other to do that is to have pure compassion. To have pure compassion. He’s telling us how to be how to live. Right, Matthew 548 Be ye, therefore perfect, even as your father, which is in heaven, is perfect, he’s not saying Continue being a sinner.
00:44:47:09 – 00:45:17:21
Nathan Crane
That’s okay. You know, he’s not saying continue being angry and jealous and all of these things. He literally says in Ephesians 426, be angry and sin not don’t be angry, don’t sin. Let not the sun go down upon your wrath. Meaning let go of that anger before the day ends. Forgive yourself. Right. The only way to let go of anger is to forgive others that were angry towards or to forgive ourselves if we’re angry towards ourself.
00:45:17:21 – 00:45:44:15
Nathan Crane
If he’s been for 27, neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole still no more right? Let no more corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth. And this is really powerful for 31 for 32 Ephesians let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice and be kind to one another.
00:45:44:19 – 00:46:11:15
Nathan Crane
Tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God, for Christ’s sake, has forgiven you. So, yes, and I’m in many examples I’ve found where. Yes, God has forgiven us no matter what, God will forgive you no matter what. But it doesn’t say. But that’s okay to, you know, keep sinning and being angry and being upset and judging others and doing all these things.
00:46:11:16 – 00:46:30:24
Nathan Crane
It says, Yeah, God will forgive you because God is pure love. God is love. God is a spirit that dwells within you. The love that is within you is God. You and God and Jesus are one through that love. And yes, because God is loved and you are forgiven because you can’t forgive without love, right? Those two have to go hand in hand.
00:46:31:14 – 00:46:48:24
Nathan Crane
You can’t forgive somebody if you’re angry at them. Yeah, I forgive you, you son of a you know, it’s like it doesn’t work. You have to find the love. To truly forgive something is to forgive. Something means to let go. To let go of our ego attachment to what they did to us or same thing our judgment to ourselves.
00:46:49:16 – 00:47:15:24
Nathan Crane
We have to let go of that judgment. And then that’s the only way to truly forgive is to let go. But the the through that love, through God’s love and through practicing what Jesus teaches us, He wants us to purify ourselves. That’s what he’s telling us. Blessed are the pure and heart, for they shall see God. It is up to us to purify ourselves, to have a pure heart, a pure mind, a pure body.
00:47:15:24 – 00:47:47:05
Nathan Crane
And that requires work, right? It requires work every day or requires deep contemplation, meditation prayer. It requires practice, it requires healing. Our emotional traumas. And all of these things are totally possible. And we see it every day. I’ve seen in my own life, you know, where I came from. I came from the opposite extreme of all this angry hatred, violence, jealousy, depression, suicidal robbing, cheating, drugging.
00:47:47:08 – 00:48:08:19
Nathan Crane
The hole is deep in fire. You could go down the path of the devil. A human could possibly go before they were dead. That’s where I was for my whole job, for my whole teenage years, and to come out the other side of that and to heal those traumas and to forgive those around you. Forgive and forgive myself and to, you know, learn what love is and compassion is.
00:48:08:19 – 00:48:28:16
Nathan Crane
And I’m still learning these things and getting better and improving and trying to, you know, be more loving and compassionate with my wife, with the people around me. It’s like I still have, you know, things that trigger me from time to time and things where, you know, I get angry or whatever. But it’s with the practice, with the connection to God, with the prayer to God, with the meditation.
00:48:28:16 – 00:48:47:04
Nathan Crane
It’s like more and more of those are falling away. My attachment to those things are falling away. The angers are falling away, you know, more and more. So I see that in my own life that you can purify yourself on the path to God. And in fact, Jesus tells us that’s exactly what we should be doing every single day.
00:48:47:21 – 00:48:50:02
Nathan Crane
True. So anyway, go back to you.
00:48:50:02 – 00:49:20:20
Jonathan Otto
Absolutely know it’s powerful. It’s it’s awesome. And I think that where it where you’re quoting the verses and reading from them, you know, super well like you’re putting together the picture and it’s and it’s powerful. It’s profound. It it’s very clear that the scriptures teach this. And so and I’m probably really good at bringing up this kind of challenge in that, you know, why is it that these scriptures are so clear and that people like me went to church kind of all my life.
00:49:21:00 – 00:49:48:12
Jonathan Otto
All my life. And people have, you know, seen that most often. Again, this is these are some broad strokes, you see, like almost both realities, almost, you know, perfect in a perfect resolution. One is you see the Christians that are giving everything. And, you know, we even saw some examples where we’re at in Kenya together and we saw the people that were responding to that kind of cry for help were often Christians.
00:49:48:12 – 00:50:06:01
Jonathan Otto
And yet, sure, they’re imperfect, too. And there are some things you connected with them and other things you just didn’t feel as connected with them in the way they engage. But nevertheless, that purity and wanting to do something and do that from out of a place is truly wanting to serve. And they that their net impact was positive and good.
00:50:06:06 – 00:50:32:19
Jonathan Otto
Now you have this other picture of why is it that, you know, people so often feel judged by Christians and felt feel so driven away from Christianity by Christians? And there’s these massive scandals that are that are out there and that it’s, you know, these these prolific Christian leaders are that were leading the world. And now the ones that are, you know, found to be having these affairs and be doing all kinds of things that are way beyond even that.
00:50:32:19 – 00:50:56:20
Jonathan Otto
And, you know, being completely, you know, the opposite of everything you read. Why is this happening at when when these scriptures are so clear? Did someone not teach it clear enough to them? Do they not read the Bible carefully enough? And they do. They missed these points. And so, you know, these are the big questions. And so sometimes it’s the knowledge of these things that don’t still cause people then to in and act them.
00:50:56:20 – 00:51:22:05
Jonathan Otto
They know that that exists. But I’m saying the big contradiction is that they’re the image of God that people are seeing is the opposite of of what they hoped to be and what they believe they’re instructed to become. And they live under the threat of that God. That is that is really a reflection of themselves and a magnified version of themselves.
00:51:22:05 – 00:51:50:11
Jonathan Otto
And then it’s impossible to escape that fear and that judgment. And it brings out more and more bad behaviors, and all of it creates a desire for comfort. And I need comfort. And the reason why I’m doing these drugs is because I’m tormented in my mind, because I feel a disconnection. I feel rejection and rejection. I would argue, is one of the greatest things that people feel continually, and especially in a theological or religious context, people feel rejection from God without realizing it creates such an emptiness.
00:51:50:11 – 00:52:07:23
Jonathan Otto
And it just the belief that God will love you if you do well is rejection in and of itself. And you think about even basic songs like Santa Claus is very much a depiction of God when you think about it, because he’s going to reward you and he’s going to give you good toys. If you’re a good child, he’s going to give you nothing.
00:52:07:23 – 00:52:35:01
Jonathan Otto
Or Cole, if you’re a bad boy. But I mean, look at the darker versions of Santa Claus is really Krampus the, you know, the German mythological being. But I mean, it actually harm children. I’m not going to go into detail. But so these mythological concepts often have these dark underpinnings, but even in even in the the the playfulness of Santa Claus, you hear songs like Santa Claus is Coming to town.
00:52:35:01 – 00:52:50:04
Jonathan Otto
He’s making a list. He’s checking at it twice. He’s going to find out who’s naughty or nice. Santa Claus is coming to town. So now you’re going to be scored on what you’ve done and what you haven’t done. And now you stand before God. God is ultimately going to find out everything you’ve done wrong because you know what you’ve done wrong better anyone else.
00:52:50:14 – 00:53:10:14
Jonathan Otto
And this is a tormenting thought for you. So all you do is you live a life awaiting your own judgment and final rejection and all of these things that, for example, you read. For a lot of people, it’s like, Yeah, that’s everything. I’m not and that’s everything that I fail at. And I tried so hard to be all of those things and now I can’t do it anymore.
00:53:10:21 – 00:53:25:03
Jonathan Otto
So I don’t even know what to call myself. But I just and the thought of God just frightens me. So I don’t even know if I believe in God anymore. And people are losing bit based on this image of God that would do that. That rejection is still there. And I’m saying, what if that was all a lie?
00:53:25:03 – 00:53:41:17
Jonathan Otto
And what if you just what if you understood that God will always you no matter what? And that is true. And so that’s where I agree with the people that are saying this other thing. But they’re they’re taking it to the taking the power out of it because often and still, the people that are pushing that will still say God burns in hell.
00:53:41:22 – 00:54:05:16
Jonathan Otto
People help forever in hell, forever. For people that didn’t didn’t get it right. They didn’t say the right words. They didn’t say Jesus or they didn’t do. I don’t know. It’s weird because then they’re saying that you don’t have to do anything, so why do even people go to hell anyway? So it doesn’t make any sense. But let’s say that they they do, you know, often people that are teaching that that gives them again, it’s a it’s another atonement process.
00:54:05:16 – 00:54:23:20
Jonathan Otto
It’s substitution or atonement will if these people die and go to hell. That’s the reason why I can go to heaven, because my wrong deeds are now projected onto other people that go into the bad place. So I can go into a good place and it’s really deep and that’s just minds work. Until people can understand that, you have to realize that you’re a total pagan.
00:54:24:03 – 00:54:48:12
Jonathan Otto
If you want to understand how how it works. And again, I don’t I don’t mean pagan in the sense that like there’s a lot of amazing things in native cultures, native medicine, etc., etc.. But I mean, I mean the dark side of the pagan ritual, unless you realize that that’s kind of your philosophy, you can’t understand all these things of why you naturally assume that somebody else deserves something you’re trading off, like they get bad so I can get good.
00:54:48:20 – 00:55:08:15
Jonathan Otto
The sacrifice of the innocent of the guilt is also common. That’s why Christ then dies and he’s innocent. So these are common concepts for cultures, you know, the virgins that would be put strapped to a volcano, you know, so that they would make atonement for the people. These are these are the dark thoughts that that that plague humanity.
00:55:09:02 – 00:55:36:05
Jonathan Otto
But my in my my point there of the full circle of people understanding that if you understand that you’re loved by God respectively, and then that has the cleansing power, it allows basically everything that you read, it personifies it fully in God. Now when you worship God, which is, you know, we are not used to using those words, but it’s basically you adore God, you want a God, you you just seek to be loved by God.
00:55:36:05 – 00:55:56:22
Jonathan Otto
And that’s the simple process of worshiping. It’s just to be loved by God. And you enjoy to be loved. And that’s really what worship is to come in presence at God like that. Then it’s then it’s beautiful. Then it’s everything that you hoped and believed of everything. You yourself should be yourself and kind of others. God is the fullness of that always.
00:55:57:02 – 00:56:24:08
Jonathan Otto
And He never stops doing that and being that. And he will always love and accept. He doesn’t judge and he doesn’t kill. Once people understand this, then that death cycle then finally ends and then you feel completely loved, accepted by God. That’s the transforming power. Then that creates the behaviors because it’s the threat that creates the behaviors, because the threat takes away the comfort and the comfort that you get from God now has to find you have to find comfort somewhere.
00:56:24:08 – 00:56:40:05
Jonathan Otto
It’s going to be drug sex. It’s going to be, you know, power. And then so you do anything to get power that will create stealing. And all of these are downstream results of simply rejecting God because you believe that he rejects you.
00:56:40:05 – 00:57:23:02
Nathan Crane
MM. It’s such a profound statement and an eye opening perspective, you know, you shared a lot there. I mean, I encourage people, rewind it and listen to it again and take some notes because it’s really deep, a really deep perspective that you share to your question or to your you know, you kind of raise the the question of the idea about people being confused and saying, well, if I’m not all these things and I’m not perfect and I’m not, you know, and I get angry and I get upset and I’m not pure of heart and all these things that Jesus tells us to be, then, you know, I’m not going to be accepted by God
00:57:23:02 – 00:58:00:01
Nathan Crane
and get into having all these things. So what’s the point in anyway? What I tell people is, or what I would say in fact, is read Matthew 633 Because this is so powerful, this has been so powerful for me, where he’s talking to, you know, he’s he’s this is part of the Sermon on the Mount. And he’s talking to everybody there and he’s saying, look, have no concern for your life or for your clothing, for your food, for all these things, because God, God is there to take care of it.
00:58:00:01 – 00:58:25:22
Nathan Crane
You don’t need to have any concern about any of these things, he said. But Siki first he said, Don’t seek these things. Seek you first, the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you, right? And He is talking about everything in our life. He’s saying, look, if whatever it is that you’re looking for, I mean, you could take that to gives a lot of metaphors and examples of, you know, birds and different things.
00:58:25:22 – 00:58:50:08
Nathan Crane
It’s like your life, your livelihood, your wellbeing, your everything that you desire and look for in this life. First, seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all else will be added unto you and say, okay, yes. So seek the Kingdom of God. That’s that’s pretty clear. So the next question clearly should be, okay, where where is the kingdom of God?
00:58:50:24 – 00:59:13:08
Nathan Crane
That was my next question, right where he said sick. Okay. You know, it’s like sick Lake Michigan. Okay, if I don’t have a map, I’ve never heard or heard about it like, where is Lake Michigan? Right. I live in Africa or something. Like where is that? So where’s the Kingdom of God? Well, he also tells us in multiple passages where the Kingdom of God is the first.
00:59:13:23 – 00:59:41:04
Nathan Crane
The first one or one of the first says Luke. 1721. Neither shall they say it’s here or there for behold, the kingdom of God is within you. The Kingdom of God is within you. So seek you first, the Kingdom of God, and all else will be added unto you. Well, where do I do that? Inside you. You are another confirmation that the Kingdom of God is inside you.
00:59:41:04 – 01:00:22:02
Nathan Crane
First Corinthians 316. No, you’re not. That you are the Temple of God, basically. Let me translate. I mean, speak in normal language. Don’t you know that you are the Temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you, God, the Temple of God, the Kingdom of God is inside of you. And what’s very fascinating in this Bible conversation, this is exactly what the yogis have been teaching out of India for thousands of years, that through meditation practices, going inside yourself is where you connect to God, is where you become one with God, where you speak to God, where God speaks to you and guides you through meditation.
01:00:22:11 – 01:00:42:21
Nathan Crane
Jesus said the same thing. There was spoken thousands of years ago in India. The Kingdom of God is within you, and that’s where we must seek. So if we’re looking for if we want to believe Jesus and tell us where do we find this righteousness, we have to go inside and we go inside through meditation. And people are saying, Oh, meditation isn’t in the Bible.
01:00:43:05 – 01:01:13:09
Nathan Crane
There are dozens and dozens and dozens of times in the Bible where they talk about meditation, right? So if you go, Oh, that’s some woo woo yogi thing. No, it’s in the Bible, it’s in Genesis, it’s in Joshua, it’s in Psalms. Right. Tells us about meditate, meditate, meditate, meditate, go within. This is where we discover God. So this is where we discover God for ourselves to answer that question of, Well, how do I purify myself?
01:01:13:09 – 01:01:31:17
Nathan Crane
How do I become that, you know, pure a person like Jesus is telling us, how do I find that forgiveness? How do I find that love of God? How do I know that for myself, not just because I’m saying it or you’re saying or some parts are saying it, but how do you find that love and forgiveness and kindness for yourself?
01:01:32:07 – 01:01:52:13
Nathan Crane
You go deep into meditation, and in meditation you start to feel peace. There’s a beautiful thing about meditation. The deeper we go on a meditation, the more peace we feel. Well, isn’t peace just an experience of love, right? We feel love. Isn’t that peace. Oh, you can be so in so much turmoil in your life. Anger, hatred, fear.
01:01:52:23 – 01:02:11:07
Nathan Crane
But through meditation, through breathing and quieting the mind and reflecting inwardly to the Kingdom of God, we can connect to that love and to that peace of God. And when we open our eyes and we bring that into our daily life, now we are doing Jesus’s work here on the planet that he told us that we are here to do.
01:02:11:18 – 01:02:37:17
Nathan Crane
And I’ve experienced that in my own life. Meditation has saved and changed my life. How did I overcome all those things I talked about my childhood, all the traumas and all of the addictions and all of that evilness was through meditation. It was through meditation. And the deeper I meditate now, and the more I learn of the scientific, meditative practices, it’s like the deeper experiencing I’m having of God continuously and as beautiful and as powerful.
01:02:37:17 – 01:02:58:05
Nathan Crane
And so the solution is there. It’s right in front of us, you know. And if I could share a quick story and then I’ll hand it back to you. My friend invited me to 1122 Church last week. Christian Church I’ve never been to a church that big in my life. It was like a giant, like rock concert. It’s crazy.
01:02:58:11 – 01:02:59:22
Nathan Crane
Have you ever been there? You’re going to.
01:03:00:09 – 01:03:03:07
Jonathan Otto
I haven’t been to that one, but I’ve been to many things. Just like that.
01:03:03:13 – 01:03:22:23
Nathan Crane
Yeah. I went, you know, the military, we go to a unity church on Sundays. It’s like a little it was like 30 or 40 people there, a little, little small band and stuff that real little homely, intimate. And so then I went to this one last Thursday and I was like, Holy crap, I’m in a rock concert. What is going on is like he’s like, Yeah, let’s, let’s go sit up at the top in the nosebleeds.
01:03:22:23 – 01:03:43:08
Nathan Crane
I was like, Are you kidding me? I was like, Let’s sit right up front. So we sat up front a few rows back because, you know, the front ones were reserved for the VIP. You know, people, of course, they got out of their seats. So we sat three or four rows back and they go right into this, you know, like Christian rock songs, the first couple and I was singing along with it and just really getting into it.
01:03:43:08 – 01:03:59:20
Nathan Crane
And then by the third song, I just closed my eyes and I just went in a meditation and just, you know, hands in prayer. And I just meditate. I was just meditating on Jesus. I was just, Jesus, I’m here for you. Show me yourself, you know, show me the way to God. Show me, show me oneness with God.
01:03:59:20 – 01:04:32:23
Nathan Crane
Teach me, show me your ways, you know, be with me I love you, Jesus. Just calling on constantly Right eyes closed, meditating on Jesus and and I kid you not, I don’t know how long into the song, but all of a sudden, up above the stage, oh, my eyes were close. But I could see like up above the stage was this came in this massive, glorious robed figure, white flowing robes, you know, long hair, beard like I couldn’t see the face clearer was more like a silhouette, just radiating so much light and energy and love towards us.
01:04:32:23 – 01:04:55:00
Nathan Crane
And it just started bringing a tear to my eye, you know? I’m just like, thank you, Jesus. And I could see how beautiful being in a Christian church like that is, where all these people, they are praying to Jesus and wanting to, you know, know Jesus and follow Jesus and and know God and be with God. And I just thought, because I used to have so much judgment about Christianity, because of the judgment that I’ve seen from Christians over my life.
01:04:55:18 – 01:05:16:19
Nathan Crane
And so to open myself and to really go into Christian churches and be like, No, no, I’m here for Jesus. Like, I don’t care about anything else. I want to be, I want to speak to Jesus, hear from Jesus, be guided by Jesus, be one with Jesus. And then to see this Jesus like figure, you know, it was clearly Jesus, you know, up above this just massive, just radiating.
01:05:17:02 – 01:05:35:05
Nathan Crane
And it just made me feel like, yeah, this is he’s here with us, just radiating all this love and light and positive energy to anybody who calls upon his name. Right. And and then I, you know, and then I opened my eyes. I was just like, you know, a couple of tears. It was just, like, really, really powerful.
01:05:35:07 – 01:06:01:23
Nathan Crane
The music really helped me go deep, actually. Mm hmm. And it was funny because my recently it was my acupuncturist who used to be he’s a traditional Chinese medicine acupuncturist, you know, used to be in the Buddhism, but then was atheist and then found Jesus. And so it was him who told me, you know, a few months back, he’s like he was talking to me about he’s like, Yeah, you know, Jesus.
01:06:01:23 – 01:06:16:17
Nathan Crane
He was kind of judging a little bit and he’s like, Yeah, you know, you need to know Jesus and you need Jesus in your life. You know, he’s kind of preaching a bit. And I was like, it’s like, okay, I just sat with it. And then I was just sharing with him some stories and I was like, Yeah, I know Jesus.
01:06:16:17 – 01:06:34:14
Nathan Crane
I feel Jesus is in my life. And another time I saw him, I shared with him years and I humanitarian trip to Kenya recently. And then he was like after he heard some stories from me, you know, he after a few times of seeing him, he’s like he’s like, you know, Jesus more than I do. You’re closer to Jesus than me.
01:06:34:15 – 01:06:52:04
Nathan Crane
He’s like, I need to do more of what you’re doing. You’re actually doing what he teaches, you know, go out and help others and give yourself and all this stuff. And I said, well, you can you know, this is this is within all of us. This is yeah, Jesus is leading us and guiding us to to live like he did to do these things that he did right to, serve others in need.
01:06:52:10 – 01:07:24:04
Nathan Crane
And when we do all you know, we seek God first. We seek the Kingdom of God within us. All else then is is given to us, all else is shared with us and it’s. Anyway, that was a really beautiful experience. Yeah. And it was really funny because the one topic that I think has kept me out of Christian churches for so long was the one topic that the pastor decided to preach on when I went there last last Thursday, which was.
01:07:24:04 – 01:07:24:12
Jonathan Otto
Why.
01:07:24:17 – 01:07:49:17
Nathan Crane
Which is a topic we’re talking about today, is the exactly what we’re talking about today, which is funny because, you and I, I had this topic planned for us to discuss since we discussed this like two months ago or whenever we talked about doing this, this in my notes of topic number two, and then he preached on this topic of the only way to heaven is to proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
01:07:49:17 – 01:08:05:12
Nathan Crane
And it doesn’t matter how much good you do, it doesn’t matter how mindful you are, it doesn’t matter how much you atone. It doesn’t matter what you do in your life. If you don’t proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then you will not get into heaven. You will burn in hell. And I’m like, okay, so here’s the exact topic.
01:08:05:22 – 01:08:23:08
Nathan Crane
And I just sat there and I just sat with it, just not judging just trying to fully understand it and be with it and, and be be at peace with it and like, and look at all the other beauty and all the other goodness that was in, in that room there was in that church. Right. And and what a perfect experience.
01:08:23:08 – 01:08:42:06
Nathan Crane
This happened last Thursday. And then we’re literally having the discussion on this today that we had planned like two months ago. Is that not divine synchronicity from God? Like, how could that not be? You know what I mean? Oh, just a coincidence like, tell me how crazy of a coincidence that is.
01:08:42:24 – 01:09:15:22
Jonathan Otto
Yeah, that’s awesome. Then that’s awesome. And I think that what it did was it, it pushed the boundaries of the conversation and, and it, there are things there that it’s you notice even in my answer I could have given you the exact answer that maybe is now that’s completely wrong. I can’t believe those guys and and it’s it’s it’s 100% this and and then what people like him would say is like well Jonathan you’re illegal list you believe that you can get to heaven by virtue of the law and how well you perform for God.
01:09:16:06 – 01:09:43:13
Jonathan Otto
And and so like. So these conversations go every which way and but there is clarity in it all. And it’s, you know, the overarching issues are the ones where it’s like, well, like, what’s the issue here? What do you believe is the thing that stops you from getting into heaven? Where where is that boundary? Is that is that God saying like, you haven’t done enough?
01:09:43:22 – 01:10:04:21
Jonathan Otto
Because that is the issue that creates all of and remember, God is always a mirror to us. So naturally. Why do you think basically every human it’s kind of that’s ever I’ve talked to you on the subject is had the thought that maybe they would get to heaven and that God would tell them that sorry, you don’t belong here.
01:10:05:02 – 01:10:33:19
Jonathan Otto
And here’s the reasons. And it’s like a horrifying thought. People have these dreams of like when they get taught about the rapture in church, which I believe is like it. They there’s some different Bible verses that they’re confusing with that but the Bible does talk about everyone getting caught up to heaven or like all people that hear his voice, let’s say that way, but not necessarily the way that it’s taught.
01:10:33:19 – 01:10:52:09
Jonathan Otto
And then, you know, then you see these images of like the pilot suddenly gets taken, but he’s flying a plane, so then that crashes. And so these like amazing Hollywood productions then exacerbated these thoughts and feelings that other people taken. And they sit there waiting and people are horrified. Probably some people that are listening can really relate to all these things.
01:10:52:17 – 01:11:17:01
Jonathan Otto
And so the the need for securities is huge, but the absence of that securities coming from the fact that you’re the one, it’s your image that’s you. Because you just think about, okay, if you want to get real with this, think about when you hang it out with your your friends, quote unquote. And then what things that you just say to your spouse about the friends that you just hanging out with.
01:11:18:12 – 01:11:40:05
Jonathan Otto
Oh, yeah. Well, I said that I didn’t like this about them and this about them and how could they possibly do that? And it’s unbelievable that they do this and they did that. And I can’t believe that those guys wear masks. They’re so brainwashed. Oh, those guys don’t wear masks. They’re They’re like it anti people. And they’re.
01:11:40:17 – 01:11:55:06
Nathan Crane
It’s taken me like two or three years to like really get to a place of, you know, having compassion for people in that regard. And understanding like that was not easy for me. That was not easy. So I guess, yeah. Yeah.
01:11:55:12 – 01:12:12:06
Jonathan Otto
And that’s the image of God right there. So now of course, you’re going to see that image of God. That’s the image that you see. God is making all this, checking it twice. He knows everything you’ve screwed up on and that is just a complete torment. So what do you think that people do? Well, God just doesn’t even look at it.
01:12:12:06 – 01:12:33:05
Jonathan Otto
He just looks for me saying the word and then I’m in because everything else creates so much fear and and uncertainty. And I do actually agree with the one thing that he’s saying about the fact it’s not our good works that get us into heaven. I do agree with that. I think it’s a very powerful thing because it gets more into the identity of who you are to God like my son.
01:12:33:05 – 01:12:49:04
Jonathan Otto
It doesn’t come into this house because he did something like he was a good boy and then I let him in the house. He comes in the house because he’s my son. And so that’s the concept that they’re trying to get to. When they say, just confess the name of Jesus, basically just say, I want in on the family of God.
01:12:49:04 – 01:13:09:15
Jonathan Otto
Just, just, well, but then but then not doing it to convince God so that he lets you in. He was the one that was saying, Come, you’re invited. I can’t kick down your door and grab you by the throat and pull you in here and still be a God of love and freedom of choice. So therefore, you’ve got to accept this if you want to.
01:13:09:15 – 01:13:32:07
Jonathan Otto
You don’t have to accept it. But I want you to accept this. And what do I need to do? And so in this case, it’s like I’m willing to die a painful, bloody death, because I know that that atonement system is the one that is going to match what you believe needs to happen. You So now once you now believe that that’s taken off you and that Christ has taken that and again, so a lot of people haven’t gotten out of what what I am explaining is an old coven understanding.
01:13:32:07 – 01:13:52:05
Jonathan Otto
They believe that God had to kill Jesus in order to accept you. So there’s lots of different frameworks that make it very hard for them to fully understand what’s going on here. God is fully accepting, has always accepted you, and and he’s invited you in. And now your rejection is the big thing that standing in the way of this.
01:13:52:05 – 01:14:08:20
Jonathan Otto
And then it’s and then that causes all these wrong deeds. And then these are the things you bring up and you heap on yourself. You’re storing up wrath. And to the day of judgment, this is the this is the wrath that you’re stirring up within yourself. And this is the issue. And God is seeking to save people from this.
01:14:09:04 – 01:14:29:14
Jonathan Otto
And these are the some of the bigger understandings that really help to give people complete certainty that God will love and forgive, accept unconditionally of all people, and yet God’s God is seeking to bring us away from these dark and destructive patterns because He wants to see his image reflected in us. He doesn’t want to see others suffer or suffer.
01:14:29:14 – 01:14:48:13
Jonathan Otto
So that’s his longing longs for that complete image of what he designed this for, even in this world of sin. And we have a propensity to evil, we do have a lineage, we do have our epigenetic of our parents and their parents, and those things are all in us. But God’s light can shine through that and it can break it.
01:14:48:13 – 01:15:13:20
Jonathan Otto
We’ve seen examples all through history and today. You find the hard and the hardest of criminals becoming kind and benevolent. And and these are real. There are cases where. Yeah, so it’s verified to know it’s true or not. The people that lived and died and you watched their life and they completely exhibited these characteristics and that’s the power of the love of God, of what it can do for people to transform the life.
01:15:14:01 – 01:15:33:12
Jonathan Otto
But I believe that that fullness of that transformation actually comes in the knowledge of our complete acceptance with God outside of our behaviors. So once you take away from somebody the belief that they have to perform to be loved, to God, they actually start to perform. When I perform is the wrong word. They actually start to exhibit beautiful characteristics because they’re unsolicited.
01:15:33:12 – 01:15:46:02
Jonathan Otto
They’re they’re not forced and they’re not doing it to try to gain something. They’re only doing it because they’re loved and they’re just loving with the love that they’ve been loved with. And it’s an impulse of the hot. And that’s what the true the truth of this matter is as far as I’m concerned.
01:15:46:08 – 01:16:11:20
Nathan Crane
Mm. I love that it’s end and it’s not an end or situation. Right. It’s a, it’s, it’s both. Both can be true. Both can be true. Yes. You know, claim Lord Jesus as Lord and Savior. And that brings us closer to God. And yes, we purify our lives in our hearts and, our words and our deeds. And that brings us closer to God.
01:16:11:23 – 01:16:30:01
Nathan Crane
Both can be true at the same time, right? It’s not that you half you know, it’s the doing good that gets you, you know, seeing good in the in the eyes of God. It’s that we, you know, yes, we should do good and yes, we’re forgiven. Like both of those are true. They can be true at the same time.
01:16:30:11 – 01:17:06:09
Nathan Crane
Yeah. And I love, I’ve been listening to the gospel of Sri Ramakrishna which is in credible enlightened being, who lives in the late 1800s or early 1900s in India. I highly recommend reading that book or listening to it. For anybody who wants to learn from somebody who is highly considered a saint, had all kinds of incredible things and miracles that happened to him and that he, you know, performed for others and he was on a deep, deep search for God since he was a little child as a teenager, he was already running a temple, but he never read books.
01:17:06:09 – 01:17:25:02
Nathan Crane
Everything he received was from Spirit. And he would teach and the scholars would come and listen and say, Oh, my gosh, how do you know all of this? It’s because, you know, this is what all the ancient texts say. But I guess because he’d been living it and receiving downloads from God and then sharing it and even, you know, impressing the greatest scholars at the time.
01:17:25:08 – 01:17:49:05
Nathan Crane
And so his life was documented by his followers. They had, you know, recorded many of the talks that he had given and kept document of it and wrote, you know, turned into a book. It’s called The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. What he talks about in there as he, you know, he he became a devout Christian for some time and he said he said yes, he became a devout Muslim for some time.
01:17:49:05 – 01:18:13:00
Nathan Crane
Right. He discovered God through through the Vedas, through Vedanta, through the different Indian scientific Indian practices of discovering God. But then he, when he wanted to understand each religion and do they also lead you to God? And what he discovered was as a as a deep, devout, practicing Christian, he became one with Jesus. He knew Jesus deeply and intently.
01:18:13:06 – 01:18:39:07
Nathan Crane
And it brought him to the same God and same when he practiced as a muslim deeply and, intently, it brought him to the same God, to the same experience that, you know, he talks about how every religion, if we truly dove into the essence of it, which is to know God is to truly know God in ourselves, to be one with God, to have God in our lives that they all lead to the same God.
01:18:39:13 – 01:19:04:06
Nathan Crane
There’s not a different God for anybody. It’s all the same God. There’s one God and they all lead you to the same place. And anyway, his his life is just unbelievable, incredible and definitely, definitely worth listening to for anybody who’s interested. But I know we’re actually 3 minutes, 3 minutes over time. So any anything you want to add to to wrap up, brother my show?
01:19:04:08 – 01:19:50:04
Jonathan Otto
No, thanks. Thanks for having me on to chat about this. I’m it’s really awesome. I appreciate it because these things have really helped me a lot. They have a really practical bearing on my life. And yeah, I’m really grateful. These things have helped me immensely with my marriage. I’ve had a harder marriage than a you know, I can compare, but it’s yeah, there’s definitely like different things where there’s just been various challenges that that have come in life that for me I couldn’t do it with my just the kind of program that I got given or the way that I saw how to do life or respond to situations or challenges.
01:19:50:14 – 01:20:28:22
Jonathan Otto
I needed to me like just immense perspective and power and love and comfort. And I needed to understand God differently because I a lot of my problems in life have all come from the wrong view of God that have caused me then to feel fear and act in ways that I’m like, what I’m thinking of what’s coming out of me, why am I acting like this under stress, under real pressure and, you know, feeling disrespected or and being in a state of where I’m where I’m concerned about my basic necessities or whatever it is, why am I acting like this?
01:20:28:22 – 01:20:51:03
Jonathan Otto
And so realizing how deeply connected that is to how I see God and how I connect with God and? And then and then finding that, you know, there is there’s so much peace that comes from being in God’s arms being. And the truth of of of the love that God has outside of a system of rejection and punishment.
01:20:51:03 – 01:21:25:09
Jonathan Otto
And so, anyway, this healed me in so many different ways, like We talked about it even on the last podcast. I talked about battling against things like Temptation Lost. I mean, this is ever present. So you just you just go out, walk in public. You have the opportunity because, you know people are the dress culture is pretty out there in you know, in 2024 and so you can you can take in all this and and the need for comfort the you know flicking through what what movie choices or just just even scrolling on your Facebook or anything.
01:21:25:14 – 01:21:58:10
Jonathan Otto
All these different clues and cues for people, men, women and and so definitely single out any sex. All these cues to then go and satisfy that need for comfort. And so it’s because of that are been willing to like lean in and asked questions like the ones that we’ve been discussing and find love find comfort from God that I’ve had a strength that has carried me, that has helped me, that is here to me, that has caused me then to not find a need for these things to come from place of I know I’m full, I’m happy, I’m content, even though yeah, sure I do.
01:21:58:10 – 01:22:27:19
Jonathan Otto
I go through things. Does my wife and my wife going through sexual trauma in childhood, then causing that to reject me sexually as you know in our marriage then then easily then I can say well here’s a good justification for this fatigue to go and indulge passions in regard to, you know, pornography and these things. But the power of of finding love from God is what’s pull me out of that so that I don’t have and I don’t have the the draw.
01:22:27:24 – 01:22:52:08
Jonathan Otto
And so and and so, you know, putting away these these sins and. And so it’s speaking a religious context to putting away the sands or putting away the behaviors, behaviors that are destructive. I don’t know of a single marriage that really claims that has really enriched their marriage. Some people think they maybe claim it, but it’s they there’s obviously a lack of intimacy in connection there for that to need to be found in separate silos and areas.
01:22:53:01 – 01:23:16:18
Jonathan Otto
So there’s like real practical benefits to this guys and whatever that is, whatever you’re battling with and it’s limitless. I mean, I just referenced something that was one of the biggest grips and challenges that I faced that I really wondered, how do you ever find your way out of this? And I didn’t really fully think maybe it was even possible you just had to kind of, you know, white knuckle it all through your life, but go deeper with the love you have with God.
01:23:16:18 – 01:23:36:04
Jonathan Otto
And you’ll find that whatever you’re struggling with, you will find victories that never thought possible and imply that it’s up to you. You get to do that. Look at how much joy and certainty and confidence it brings into your life and look at how much confidence brings you inside of God’s love. Look at how much other people then see the benefits of that.
01:23:36:04 – 01:23:58:11
Jonathan Otto
They feel loved by you. Because, look, you’ve got one shot. If you believe in this in a theological context, eternal life, you’ve got one shot to be in a world where you can love people that have not been loved or people that have challenges and pain and loss and suffering and respond. That’s not going to happen. The other side of heaven, from a Christian context is no more pain, no more suffering, no more death.
01:23:58:19 – 01:24:14:19
Jonathan Otto
So here’s your opportunity to really let the love of God shine through you to reach a broken world. Let’s use this opportunity. People need us right now, and people need us to go deep with God because we can’t do this by ourselves and we can’t do it on our own. We need the love and power of God. That’s the biggest thing.
01:24:15:22 – 01:24:46:15
Nathan Crane
Mm. Preach, brother. Preach. I love it. I love it. I’m just going to end with this verse first, John 416 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love and He that dwells in love. 12th in God and God in Him as dwell in love, y’all let’s figure out how to do it.
01:24:46:24 – 01:25:18:11
Nathan Crane
Let’s go deep inside. Let’s meditate, let’s pray, let’s let’s connect to that love. Love triumphs over all all all things are triumphed under love, the love of God the love of each other. And it’s not easy, but with God we can do it. And with practice it becomes easier, easier and easier. I know in my own life, you know, in your own life, and I know many others can testify that as well.
01:25:18:11 – 01:25:42:08
Nathan Crane
So thank you, brother. Appreciate you love these conversations. And as always, like before, we want to hear from you guys. Let us know your thoughts and comments on this particular topic. You know, post below. Share this with other people you want to have conversations with. Maybe get together in small groups and, you know, listen to parts of this and discuss it among yourselves and share it back with us.
01:25:42:08 – 01:26:03:18
Nathan Crane
This is meant to be a dialog, a conversation, you know, a community discussion. So we heard from some of you how much you love the first one love to hear your thoughts on this one and other topics you want us to cover as well. Let us know in the comments. So thank you. Wish you all so much health and happiness and peace be with us.